Wetting technic for 1708

alldodge

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I need someone to tell me exactly how to do the 1708. Don't tell me to wet it and roll it. Give me step by step, please. I just finished grinding all the 1708 and resin back off. I hear wet it first and then put it on. To wet it first will be as I see it a real mess. I don't have much space in the engine room. Assume I should use one complete layer at a time and not piece it

Can more then one layer of 1708 be used on top of each other for added strength, or should I use CSM to build it up and only one layer of 1708?

Finding I should not use any caposil with laminate, use roller instead of brush, but how do I get sufficient resin behind the layer to wet through?
 

kcassells

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I need someone to tell me exactly how to do the 1708. Don't tell me to wet it and roll it. Give me step by step, please. I just finished grinding all the 1708 and resin back off. I hear wet it first and then put it on. To wet it first will be as I see it a real mess.

I don't have much space in the engine room. Assume I should use one complete layer at a time and not piece it

---All depends like you said on the space issues to work in and the areas that need to be approached;
----If the time constraints don't permit wet on wet then;
Cut the pcs. to fit {dry fit and place} If they are pcs rather than 1 whole pc. then make overlap on the seams by a couple of inches on the first layup.
Do a dry run and fit. The space seems/sounds difficult.
Tool to have on hand; 6" roller, 4" roller, 1" to 2" brush with the tips cut down so you have a stronger brush tip/edge to reach in and shape and pop out bubbles.
Also I put my mixed bath into a paint pan liner so it doesn't heat up and cook to fast plus the roller gets good and wet.
Have your mix available, poly or EEEpoxy guestimated amount readily available but not mixed until you do the above. Keep your resins next to you in case you run short on the first batch for whatever reason.
Now;
I'll make the assumptions that you cleaned the area properly with acetone washdown just prior to approach.
Make your batch up
Roll all the surface areas you are attempting to wet out and overlap a few inches..nice and wet not skimpy.
Go real wet in all of the corners...push it real good with that roller.
You may have to quick push pin or paint tape the tops of the 1708 if on a vertical. This should be determined prior to wet out so you do what you need.
Then start placing the pcs. in as you cut them to fit. Roll them out till wet...beginning to get clear. Place the next pc with the overlap and wet that up the same way.
With the overlaps you want to make sure that the poly/poxy bleeds thru as you work it with the rollers. Don't be shy with the roller and put a little pressure on it.
Continue this method until the first layer is down and wetted out.
Use the brush, if necessary to work out corners and bubbles. When the resin is clear time to stop!
If your going to do another layer {wet on wet} Then you will need to do the same as above asap with the overlaps being bigger by 2 to 3 inches. If not just wait till dry and start the next batch later.



Can more then one layer of 1708 be used on top of each other for added strength,
Yes that's called wet on wet and is great if you can do it.

or should I use CSM
-Nope...waste of time, money and materials. 1708 is kick azz enough.
to build it up and only one layer of 1708?

Finding I should not use any caposil with laminate
Nope...Why would you unless your making pb

, use roller instead of brush, but how do I get sufficient resin behind the layer to wet through?
Above

I have had to prewet glass in a few areas but only because it was such a tough spot. It was like pizza on a window. Sucked...but I kept at it as best I could with a brush and roller. Don't really like that approach.
 

alldodge

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Above

I have had to prewet glass in a few areas but only because it was such a tough spot. It was like pizza on a window. Sucked...but I kept at it as best I could with a brush and roller. Don't really like that approach.

Thanks kcassells, appreciate it much. I'm using VE resin, and will plan to do it like you said tomorrow, tying for 3 layers of 1708. Called US Composites a little while ago and they filled in some things I was doing wrong, just as you did. They said I should not use VE with caposil between the outer skin and the new transom wood, I did and hope I don't wind up with a problem later.

They also gave me some curing times and what I should be seeing.
 

tpenfield

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Step1
Measure/Cut the piece

Step 2
Slobber the piece with resin on the CSM side, or dunk the piece in a large shallow pan with resin. . . Wetting the CSM side.

Step 3
fold the piece in half, resin facing resin and let it soak (like blocking wallpaper)

Step 4
Paint the area that you are going to apply the piece to with resin. This should only be a couple of mins while the folded piece soaks in the resin.

Step 5
Bring the folded piece from the wetting area or tub over to the work area . . . Then . . . Unfold the piece and apply it to the area.

Step 6
Roll or squeegee from the middle to the outer edges of the piece. Apply a top coating of resin to any areas that appear dry ( there shouldn't be any though)

Step 7
Admire your work.
 
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tpenfield

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BTW- when you fold the piece of cloth ( assuming 1708) or similar, it allows you to bring it over to where you are going to adhere it without making a dripping mess. Then you unfold it right where you are going to slap it on the structure.
 

tpenfield

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FWIW - I did not have a roller when I did my bulkhead on the F-330 last year. My technique wetted the cloth out well enough that I could just wipe it with my hand to smooth it out. ( gloves of course)
 

kcassells

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Now ya have it. Like TP said. It's always those tough areas that drive ya nuts!:joyous:
 

kcassells

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FWIW - I did not have a roller when I did my bulkhead on the F-330 last year. My technique wetted the cloth out well enough that I could just wipe it with my hand to smooth it out. ( gloves of course)


I do that too once in awhile...no gloves.
 

gm280

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AllDodge, I just finished tabbing my project boat stringers and bulkheads with the second installation of 1708. And how I did mine was to apply the polyester resin to the area I was tabbing and then take the 1708 and laid it on to the area. Then I took some more polyester and rolled it on top of the 1708 and it started turning clear. So I stopped applying any more resin and just worked it with the 4" cloth roller. And it worked perfect. And I did that for hours as well and all those 1708 tabbings came out very nicely. Hope that helps some... I never soaked the 1708 in poly first and then carried it to the area to install. I can see that being a huge mess with or without gloves... :eek:
 

alldodge

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Put on three layers today and all came out good. Started by coating the surface and waited for it to get tacky. Then laid 1708 and started soaking the layers with VE and a 4 inch roller. The layer went clear and smoothed it out. In about another hour that layer got tacky, so we laid another layer. Repeated this till we laid 3 layers and 66 oz of resin. Worked great, now it's all curing under some low level heaters.

Photo577.jpg

Photo576.jpg

Pic is a bit blurry but it looks clear except for bottom edge which is air space behind it. Put there on purpose so wood does not sit on hull deck.
 

tpenfield

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Glad to see that you are back on track :thumb:

The one thing I liked about using the VE resin is that it stayed 'open' for about 45 -60 minutes, which was plenty of time to do the layup and check everything.

The fumes were like chemical warfare . . . used a respirator pretty much the whole time.
 
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alldodge

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Glad to see that you are back on track :thumb:

The one thing I liked about using the VE resin is that it stayed 'open' for about 45 -60 minutes, which was plenty of time to do the layup and check everything.

The fumes were like chemical warfare . . . used a respirator pretty much the whole time.

Thanks Ted it has been more a chore then I thought it would be.

We used chemical respirators full time also, if I had to do it all over again I would use epoxy instead of VE. Found out while VE does adhere very well to VE it is not a gluing agent where epoxy is. Epoxy can be used in many locations, such as gluing the transom to the outer skin. We used VE with caposil to glue the transom up (OSO), and while it will be wedged in tight with the stringers, it will not be the same. I just hope I don't have any issues in the future with the transom coming loose.
 

kcassells

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Well Done AD! Looks good from here. I never used VE but heard a lot of good things about it. Looks like it fits like a glove! :)
 
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