Death by 1,000 cuts...89' Bayliner with twin 85hp Force mixed problems

[MountainMan57]

Bought this CC last month planning on doing some work, but seems like I'm only making small steps forward.
Engine 1. Normally has cranked well - runs great - idles great - until yesterday. Spins starter but starter doesn't engage (fully charged and tested for charge battery). I saw a small red reset button with two wires coming from it, pressed the reset, starter engaged, cranked right up, ran like a scalded dog. Stopped after a 45 min run up and down the lake. Would not restart (spins but not starter engaging) reset button no help.
Engine 2. trouble child. Replaced fuel line from tank to squeeze bulb - can shoot gas 30 feet now. Cleaned out fuel screen (not much at all). New plugs. Engine cranks ONLY if I choke it, then only stay running if I bump choke every few seconds. Put it in high idle, runs ok for a good while. Put it in gear, better plan on bumping choke or you will lose it. Once it is up and running with Engine 1 (3,000 RPM) hauling across the water no choke needed. Ran for 20 min, I backed off a little and stalled. Would not restart. I puttered around with engine 1 running for a while then tried it again. Fired right up (with full choke), kept bumping it until I got it in gear and brought it up to 3000 RPM with Engine 1. Maintained this for 30 or more minutes occassionally increasing RPMS to avoid other boats (up to 3500 or slightly more) no problem, came back down to 3000 and stayed there. All well. Then decided to take a break and pulled up to a cove. Engine 2 stalled out at 2000 RPM, Engine 1 fine until a normal shut down. An hour or more later tried to start back up. Engine 1 fires right off but I (idiot) decided to shut it down to start #2 first, so I could hear it. Got #2 started (full choke) kept bumping until I got it in high idle, then tried #1...zing goes the starter. Pull the cover, push the reset button, nothing. Used #2 all the way to the dock bumping the choke anytime RPMs dropped below 2500.

Please help.

 

[mfkadz]

Do you have any history on the motors? Were they sitting for a while?

First guess is you need to clean/rebuild the carbs on engine 2.

When you say the started will not engage. I take it it spins but the cog does not rise on the shaft? Can you manually spin the cog up the shaft? You might need a little lube there.

You might also want to check the ground on the starter. Bad ground could trip the reset.

mike

 

[henleyhale]

I think the reset button was coincidence, and the starter needs repair on top, lube, debris cleaning, brush cup inspection, terminal cleaning and inspection. And i 2nd a carb rebuild on engine 2

 

[MountainMan57]

mfkadz Thanks. Boat was traded to a fellow for a zero-turn mower and it sat in his covered storage while he tried to sell it, where I bought it. No idea how long. Starter not engaging, correct, spins but doesn't jump up to engage. But not whole story. Normally this is my "good" engine. Last 2 times out, it cranked on first try, but then I had shut off so I could hear second engine fire better, go back to 1 and it just spins. Thought maybe too low of charger on battery, but then found the circuit breaker tripped on second trip, fired right up. Later in the day, spinning again, not engaging, tried circuit breaker second time but I don't know if I hit it right, didn't seem to work so limped in on engine 2 bumping choke. Do you think I might need to increase idle speed? I did notice when 1 is idling at startup it is at about 1,000 rpm and sounds good, 2 seems to be closer to 500 rpm. Note both draw from same fuel source.

 

[mfkadz]

Yes, I would increase the idle speed a touch. Also put a dose of SeaFoam in the gas. There could be some gunk in the system.

I found a schematic and if the breaker is the fuse coming off the hot side of the solenoid I can;t see how that would stop the starter from engaging. I was thinking that if that breaker went the starter would not turn at all.

mike

 

[MountainMan57]

I have 2 cans of SeaFoam in 18 gallons of 93 octane (actually 1 can in 6 gallons, then added 12 gallons and a can more). With enough juice on the battery, what else besides rebuild on starter, would prevent it from engaging than a breaker?

 

[mfkadz]

Put some lube on the shaft the cog is on. WD, PB, ...

mike

 

[MountainMan57]

Mike, the shaft the cog is on in the starter, should I be able to move it up and down or is that something actuated by the solenoid or some other action?

 

[gm280]

I would remove and go through the questionable starter making sure the bearings and armature AND brushes are all good. And then clean the bendix and use some silicone spray on the bendix to allow it to work smoothly without oils or grease to attract dirt. That should take care of that issue. Next the idle issue is probably a low speed jet that is dirty. So I would buy and rebuild the carb for that problem. Again not a huge difficult issue. So for a little time and some money both engines could be fixed in an afternoon... JMHO!

 

[mfkadz]

Mike, the shaft the cog is on in the starter, should I be able to move it up and down or is that something actuated by the solenoid or some other action?

yes, if you spin it one way it climbs up and the other way of course is down ;-).

mike

 

[MountainMan57]

Thanks everyone for all the tips and ideas. On the engine that would not stay running...#2 I call it, rough idle, stalls slowing down even though it would run, I found the issue. Remember, this is a used boat I've only had a short time. Someone had decided a zip clip would be adequate to hold the fuel line going into the carburetors, it wasn't. Once I replaced it with a real hose clamp, runs like a top! Did some checking on the #1 starter. If I were competent in this, I'd probably try a rebuild and probably will for a back up. But I just ordered a new starter and will have the confidence that brings. It will be here Monday so both should be up and going then. Thanks again to all who contributed. I really appreciate it.

 

[MountainMan57]

Well darn. Ok, got it to the water all excited because I had received my starter early, installed, ready for the water. Backed her down the ramp, lowered both engines, fired up #2 first as that has been the problem child from go. With choke on, she fired, idled, puttered, died. I got her going again, idling, put in fast idle, kept going seemed OK. #1's turn. new starter turned like a scalded dog! BUT NO FIRE, nothing. Quiet. I checked to see if I had pumped some gas and I had. Fired slightly, just a putter or two. Then she fired and then BANG, first time I'd heard that engine backfire. Kept bumping hoping to get something running, in the mean time #2 has stalled. I finally get #1 to fire, run, now she's smoking up a storm. I get up and look to see what's going on - the exhaust hose from the block to the outside is split wide open (I guess on that backfire) and water is in the bottom of the shaft and smoke and it is all making a lot of noise too. Shut her down.

So I am home again. I've got to replace that exhaust line, but what the heck? That #1 was running great before and now nothing. Like timing has skipped or something. ideas? Getting frustrating. I am pulling out all the gas (and that seems monumental. I didn't know how much gas was onboard when I bought her, now that I have the indicator working, looks like 1/2 a tank...on a 98 gallon tank! I wonder how much is water. I'm ordering rebuild kits for the carburetors too. Who said that was an nice afternoon project?