Volvo 350 seized

[adamkat22]

wow. ok. i had just set up to look at two mercruiser 350's that were for sale. glad i found that out! thanks everyone! i almost bought the complete wrong thing.i had been trying to research all of this but that clarified everything a lot.

so theoretically i can get the pre-85 GM 350 long block from a truck (as said by Bondo and Scott) and poach the marinized parts off my current motor?

brilliant! my friend works at a salvage yard and had recommended that when he came to look at the boat but he isn't familiar with boats and after doing some reading about it online it was seeming like people were saying it seemed like a bad idea...but for what it's worth i was also researching 'mercruiser' not 'volvo'.

i'm up for doing something cheap and having it be a learning experience more than anything. this is a houseboat and i won't really do too much moving around with it anyways but want to fire it up once and a while.

thanks for all the patience and clarifications!

 

[Fishermark]

Before spending a lot of money on the engine - you need to spend some time on the outdrive. If the outdrive needs repair the costs can QUICKLY escalate. Mercruiser parts are plentiful and relatively inexpensive. The older Volvo stuff gets pricey fast! That's even if you do all the work. The outdrive you have pictured is bound to need a lot of work.

Just saying you need to do a lot more investigating and evaluating before spending much money on this project.

 

[adamkat22]

Ok, from what I've read so far here are somethings I will look into to see what condition this outdrive is in. Pleas add anything to the list that you think I should look into?

Pressure test to see if seals are all still good
Drain oil to look for water
Check (and possibly replace) exhaust and drive bellows
Check (and possibly replace) raw water pickup hose
Grease the universal joints
Check (and possibly eplace) the Intake Fitting and Gasket

I'm learning my way around this so may be a while before I can figure out how to do some of this stuff (like pressure testing for leaks in the seals) and report back...

 

[funk6294]

Guys, correct me if I am wrong, but with the center bolt valve covers on that motor, am I correct in that it has been replaced once before? I am thinking they did not start until 86~87. Does the VP suffer some of the same changes to the couplers as the Merc when going from two piece rear main to single?

 

[RogersJetboat454]

Guys, correct me if I am wrong, but with the center bolt valve covers on that motor, am I correct in that it has been replaced once before? I am thinking they did not start until 86~87. Does the VP suffer some of the same changes to the couplers as the Merc when going from two piece rear main to single?

Yes, the centerbolt valve covers indicate that the heads are at least the later style used by GM in trucks and passenger cars from about '87 on. It's possible the previous owner replaced just the heads with the newer style ones (the new style ones will bolt to an older 2 piece crank seal block with no issues), or it could have been an outright replacement of the entire engine.

What you should look for next is the casting numbers at the back of the block. It will be on the port side of the engine behind the port side cylinder head. You can look up the casting numbers here; http://www.mortec.com/castnum.htm

If the casting numbers indicate the block is a 1 piece rear main seal, you will need to find an engine late '86 and newer to use your current coupler.

If it is a 1 piece rear main, It may get a bit tricky in the search for a compatible truck engine, as I assume you need one that also has a provision for a mechanical fuel pump. GM eventually stopped drilling out the fuel pump boss (for the mechanical fuel pump pushrod and oil return) in the early 90's, as fuel injection (using a electric pump in the tank) was now common place on all their vehicles. If you still go with the used truck engine, I would shoot for an '87-91 vintage (may find it on a '92 as well). All of those truck engines are going to be fuel injected, but GM was still drilling the mechanical fuel pump boss out, and using a steel cover plate to cover the opening.

 

[Bondo]

Yes, the centerbolt valve covers indicate that the heads are at least the later style used by GM in trucks and passenger cars from about '87 on. It's possible the previous owner replaced just the heads with the newer style ones (the new style ones will bolt to an older 2 piece crank seal block with no issues), or it could have been an outright replacement of the entire engine.

Ayuh,.... That's from '87, to '96, when the Vortec heads came out,....
'96 to end of production ain't changed that I know of,... which of course, as for pickups is 2000 when the totally different SBCs were intro'ed,...

as I assume you need one that also has a provision for a mechanical fuel pump.

The electric fuel pump retrofit is easy enough,...
I'd go for a Late model 350, with the Vortec heads, 'n buy an oil pressure switch to update the fuel pump to electric,....

 

[adamkat22]

Well I checked out the stamps on the block and there were a few. Only one of them matched number on the link you sent (although I believe it was located on the starboard side). In any event it was:
14093638...350...87-95...2 or 4...Roller or flat tappet cam, one-piece rear seal So I guess I'm on the hunt for something in the 87-91 range with the provision for a mechanical fuel pump. I'd like to check to make sure my outdrive is in good shape before buying a new engine (as suggested). Should that be a new thread altogether? A few posts back I had listed some things that I will try and look into to see if the outdrive seems to be in good shape but I"m not sure if there is anything else I should look into in order to see if it's in working order....

 

[Fishermark]

On the outdrive, the first thing is to drain the oil and see what it looks like. Milky is bad. Then do a pressure and vacuum test. That will get you started.

 

[adamkat22]

No Title

well i checked the oil today...hardly anything came out (maybe two cups of oil?) and what did come out was pretty green looking. maybe a tiny bit of water (see attached pic). i haven't found a good online tutorial on pressure testing/vaccum testing the outdrive. does anyone know of a link? also the marina i'm at has a free boat with a very nice looking motor that matches mine. i attached a picture of the outdrive of that boat and am assuming it's also a 280 in which case i could get a new engine and have a parts outdrive....just need to suss out the condition of my current outdrive to see if it's all worthwhile.

 

[Bondo]

in which case i could get a new engine and have a parts outdrive..

Ayuh,.... Good deal,....

 

[captmello]

Ayuh,.... Good deal,....

+1. I don't think that that is a 280 outdrive however, I think its a 290. But I think many of the parts will interchange. The main difference in the outdrives is the 290 has power trim which is nice but not necessary on your houseboat. I believe however that the lower and upper parts of the outdrives are the same...the motor should be plug and play.

 

[Scott Danforth]

I would be looking for a donor boat with a AQ271C or 271D with the DP290 drive if your looking for complete package.

 

[Bondo]

I would be looking for a donor boat with a AQ271C or 271D with the DP290 drive if your looking for complete package.

Ayuh,........ But,........

also the marina i'm at has a free boat with a very nice looking motor that matches mine.

 

[adamkat22]

yeah "free" is the main word.
is the fact that there was only a cup or so of green oil in my outdrive of concern? and that of that cup or so of oil there was a tiny bit of what i assume would be water? from what i read the green color could have been the color of the oil? keep in mind this boat was sitting for at least 6 years on land. i assume the oil leaked out over time? should this be of concern?
I'm trying to find a mobile mechanic to come take a look at it and do the vacuum/pressure test for me...and in the meantime I am researching how to do it all myself.

 

[Scott Danforth]

I would basically pressure test the drive (empty). if it passes the pressure test AND the vacuum test, then I would flush the drive with good oil, get rid of all gunk and crud.

if the oil leaked out, you have a phucked up seal somewhere. there sould be zero leakage ever for all of eternity. if something leaks, its bad

remember, the most expensive boat is a free boat.

download the manuals and learn to do a pressure/vacuum test. for the price of paying a mobile mechanic once , you can buy all the specialty tools and do it yourself a million times.

 

[adamkat22]

in the sticky i found a link to the engine manual. a google search brought me the 'workshop manual' which seems like a good intro to the outdrive...but doesn't go into pressure testing ::edit:: vac/pressure testing is on pg 124 of the workshop manual (just not listed in the table of content).
but if there are other helpful manuals let me know. thanks

 

[Silvertip]

Seems to me you previously asked "if the prop spins does that mean the engine is locked up?". If the drive is in neutral, the answer to that question is NO. Just like a stick shift car -- if the tranny is in neutral the drive wheels will spin even though the engine is locked up. So with the drive removed, NOW try to turn the engine. If it spins, the drive is locked. Try to rotate the drive shaft on the outdrive. If it turns freely, THEN the engine is the problem . You cannot tell which is seized by turning the prop with the drive in neutral.

Crank snout = the front end of the crankshaft that protrudes out the front of the engine. The harmonic dampener and pulleys are attached to it.
Harmonic dampener = The large device on the front of the engine crankshaft. It has a hub (on the snout) and a large heavy ring around it separated by a rubber ring. Attempting to spin the engine by turning that outer ring can cause it to break the bond between it and dampener hub. You then lose the timing mark position. You can do yourself a favor by heading to a library and checking out a service manual for a small block chevy of the vi​ntage you are working on. Pictures are worth a thousand words and it appears you need help learning about this engine.

 

[adamkat22]

alright. its almost spring and i'm on the lookout for a truck engine to poach to throw into this thing. earlier in this epically long thread it was figured that i'm looking for something in the '87-'91 range with the provision for a mechanical fuel pump. Probably a stupid question but Im' just looking for a 350 out of any truck from that year? Anything better or worse to grab it out of? My friend works at a salvage yard and will keep an eye out for whatever I need. Thanks!

 

[PatinIdaho]

+1. I don't think that that is a 280 outdrive however, I think its a 290. But I think many of the parts will interchange. The main difference in the outdrives is the 290 has power trim which is nice but not necessary on your houseboat. I believe however that the lower and upper parts of the outdrives are the same...the motor should be plug and play.

That is a AQ series 280 outdrive single bolt single bolt helmet pin probably 10 spline input shaft.
make sure the shifter is in neutral and try turning the prop. If it will not turn its frozen up and will need taken apart and rebuilt.

 

[captmello]

That is a AQ series 280 outdrive single bolt single bolt helmet pin probably 10 spline input shaft.
make sure the shifter is in neutral and try turning the prop. If it will not turn its frozen up and will need taken apart and rebuilt.

I was referring to the outdrive in post 49, not the op's, sorry for the confusion. Is it not a 290?


Even If the block does not have the mechanical pump capability, you can still use an electric as long as it is wired properly with the correct fuel cut offs.