196x Johnson 35 / 33

[Tim Frank]

Wish there was a good place to get replacement wire/cable that actually matches and just unplug that one and plug this one in.

Check the boneyards listed in the "Secret Files" at the top of the section.

 

[catbones]

so .... looking around today, all wires look good as much as I can see but this one; this one on the connection points is crunchy and looks like it will fall apart. Is this the 'M' or kill wire?? anyone know??

 

[catbones]

Crap, no wonder you are confused. That is a 1969 33hp. It isn't even supposed to have a junction box. That's what happens when somebody assembles a box of misc parts and tries to make a motor out of it. I'll post the correct diagram. Follow it.

So I have re-wired everything that lead from the orange plug down to the ignition switch, because that was a mess.. took out that extra solenoid out of the transom also since F_R you said there is one in the engine. However, a new problem happened. Connecting the positive and negative to the battery started the motor right away, without even the key. So, taking a look, the battery positive (red) lead to one side of the solenoid on the motor where another small cable ran to the starter. Makes sense why it started, it bypassed the solenoid.

So, took the connection of the solenoid apart and connected everything back the way the diagram shows F_R you uploaded for my motor. However, now all I get with the key is a loud single click each time I turn the key. Starter doesn't engage. Does that mean my battery is to dead? or is something else wrong. I checked all connections, grounds, cleaned everything up... I get a click, but that's all.

Help!!!!

 

[catbones]

This is what I've got setup so far as a new setup;




Not sure exactly which white cable goes to which pin on top of the solenoid buy I'm guessing since the one on the RIGHT comes from the ignition switch (S) connection, it would go to the small "s" on solenoid. Then the one on the LEFT in the picture below goes to the cutoff something or other thing on the motor, I'm guessing it will connect to the 'I" on the solenoid or left pin.




Am I correct on this setup?? Can anyone help??

 

[F_R]

It makes no difference which white wire goes to which small terminal. If it is clicking, it is working (as far as the solenoid's primary circuit is concerned). You have come to the point where a voltmeter is required---or keep guessing.

 

[catbones]

It makes no difference which white wire goes to which small terminal. If it is clicking, it is working (as far as the solenoid's primary circuit is concerned). You have come to the point where a voltmeter is required---or keep guessing.

Great, ohh joy. I'm thinking my battery might of been dead to make anything out of the start since I've tried hooking up the solenoid on the motor, then replacing that with the solenoid that was the extra one too and the solenoid on the motor made click when key used, but the one that was in the boat didn't make any noise. I'll try charge and do first.

 

[catbones]

ok so this morning none of my solenoids make clicks or anything... I'm so confused, everything worked, solenoids worked, everything... anyways so I started thinking and working with a fully charged battery. Also got a voltmeter into the works also.

So here's what I've got so far;

1.) the right side where the positive runs in from the battery and the battery (red) cable goes into the ignition switch, I get 13.50
2.) the two white wires on the top .... the one from ignition switch had 0.10 and the one going to the side of the kill switch had 0.11
3.) the left side has nothing since at this point my solenoid, neither makes anything not even click...

So, Ive been reading and looking at the diagram for the hookups, that white wire that had 0.11 going to the kill switch, that is connect to the safety switch, should be grounded right, so no 0.11 even...

Anyways, so I unbolted this white wire that goes from the solenoid to the kill switch side for grounding, and grounded it. Now, the solenoid that was on the motor makes a click, the one that was in the boat, I get nothing still..

We are getting some where here...

Next, having the solenoid do the clicking, means something is working but not quite since I still get nothing on the starter side. I think I have to get a brand new solenoid to know that its brand new and fresh and I'm not working with something damaged. Last resort I have is to go back to the setup the previous owner had... two solenoids and hopefully that works.

Here's a question, should a solenoid make a clicking sound anyways or should it be silent when it functions properly???

 

[catbones]

So re-did the cable that sound crunchy... still nothing. My solenoid will do click noise if I touch one the solenoid top "I" cable to a ground and the "S" goes to ignition, but that's all I get is a click, no engagement and no voltage on the starter side... I guess new solenoid is in question. Interesting enough that both are dead, when they worked yesterday morning.

 

[catbones]

Alright... Progress! Finally.

I will need a new solenoid unless I can make things work with the one I took apart.

Taking it apart I noticed that the old one on the motor was fried. The one that the PO had on the transom was new and looking at my old pictures it hit me.... Why is it mounted and why is the mounting cover grounded?

Sure enough, that one needs to be grounded, the backing of it. There's a little cable that is attached on the inside to the back plate that is rivetted to the plastic casing. So back to bench test, it works! Grounding the plate and hooking up everything g else in place made the solenoid work... Then putting the solenoid together was a challenge. I pretty much taped it with electric tale the plate to the casing and put it on the motor. Awesome, it starts!

Now I need a new solenoid, because the one that works needs to be grounded by a cable since I cut off the little mounting bracket with bolt holes. Those holes would never match up.

So my question to anyone who's reading this and knows what I'm talking about above, is the solenoid on the motor different then the one you get at the store? The mounting holes don't match and the bolts going through that ground it. Attaching it to the base of the motor case doesn't seem to ground it either and old solenoid didn't have a grounding bracket but rather a metal bracket with rubber inside of it.

 

[catbones]

So I've got my solenoid today and installed it in replacement of that fixer upper I had on there (fixed myself) and well everything is back to normal.

- new starter solenoid
- new and proper wiring (choke works and key off works)

Im also wondering if I should do maintenance on the water pump... Not sure if in neutral I should be only getting a spitting type water flow vs a good long stream type... I get one when in gear but other then in gear, she aint. I also see small amount of smoke coming out of there too. Maybe because of water muffs .... In the water it different. Will give it a go on the Tonawanda creek tomorrow and see how she does.

 

[catbones]

So today I finished the rest of the wiring and decided to fire her up after few days.

Well, first I got couple sparks on the ground battery terminal when hooking up the motor battery cables. Quickly took it off. OK... Checked it all, and everything looks good wiring wise. So lets try again, this time no sparks but turning the key nothing... Again, great I'm back to square one.

Possible that I fried the starter solenoid? I get nothing again on the terminal closes to the starter. Full 12.25 on the other terminal where battery lead is.

Suggestions anyone??

 

[catbones]

anyone??? I still don't understand why I would get sparks coming from negative post on the battery and no start from the motor when everything I checked is grounded right.

 

[Tim Frank]

Unless it is a shower of sparks, it just sounds like something is turned on....an accessory maybe....lights etc.
What that also implies is that the battery will discharge over time from the draw.
May not be related to your problem...or might be.

BTW, what did you get as a replacement solenoid? An OEM?

 

[catbones]

Unless it is a shower of sparks, it just sounds like something is turned on....an accessory maybe....lights etc.
What that also implies is that the battery will discharge over time from the draw.
May not be related to your problem...or might be.

BTW, what did you get as a replacement solenoid? An OEM?

It's quite strange as I had everything off and it was first time I was hooking up the battery to test all my wiring. It wasn't a shower of sparks either so I get what your saying.

However, before I drag my cables and installed the switch into the dash... it worked just fine. Run cable... install to dash, all cables are separate, nothing touching, etc.. and I finish the install of the ignition switch and it don't work. Ok, took it out of the dash, don't work... looked at cables, still all the same just not hanging all around the boat, zipped tied to hangers.

Solenoid I got is the Sierra International brand, aftermarket part. Couldn't find a Johnson...

Now before, with the old solenoid that I took apart to see the interior function... it did the same thing, it was quiet, no clicks no nothing... so after figuring it all out, I found that, the back plate I had to ground. As soon as I ground the back plate, it worked fine. This solenoid is doing the same thing, so I'm wondering if its the same issue... I have yet to try and ground the backing plate of the solenoid.

It's all new to me, and strange... sort of sick of dealing with this issue. LOL... finally got the boat finished and weather is beautiful to go on the water with family and I decided to rewire the damn thing properly when I could of probably just kept it the same wiring just figure out the kill switch which wouldn't be hard since it was 1 brown + 1 black (NOT black + black like it should be) thanks to previous owner.

 

[oldboat1]

have had similar issues -- solenoid ground. Can test a ground wire from solenoid case to motor ground or battery ground, or small terminal to ground. On a starting hookup I have for testing, I ended up running a ground wire from the small solenoid terminal to battery ground. There could be a bad engine to battery ground as well. Sounds like you are close. (test with ground wires, not hot side).

 

[catbones]

have had similar issues -- solenoid ground. Can test a ground wire from solenoid case to motor ground or battery ground, or small terminal to ground. On a starting hookup I have for testing, I ended up running a ground wire from the small solenoid terminal to battery ground. There could be a bad engine to battery ground as well. Sounds like you are close. (test with ground wires, not hot side).

Thats what I was thinking but isn't the one of the small solenoid terminal wires going to the cut off switch, then to the grounding ?

Also, here's food for thought.... so I went back out few minutes ago, to test it with a fully charged battery maybe it wasn't fully charges after last time. Anyways here's what happened;

1.) connected red wire first to positive.

2.) made sure everything else is grounded like ti should.

3.) noticed battery positive terminal is sort of dark grey or black/grey.

4.) as soon as I connected the black cable to the negative terminal, the red wire started to make sparks... then it sizzled. and half way through my wiring, I noticed smoke coming out... and the plastic cover on the wires to the motor melting. So I disconnected.

5.) ripped and cut through the plastic cover... to see the positive, negative and the switch wires. I did notice that these were once again put together by previous owner, he used a bolt to connect the positive with positive, and negative with negative... he used electric tape to divide the two, looks like the positive bolt, some how melted through the electric tape to the negative .. and so both were touching at that point through garbage of melted electric tape....

Anyways, cleaned that up, divided the two .. and connected to battery, no sparks, no nothing, no start.

That said, I really now need help and suggestion... should I go out and spend $60 to replace both cables from the engine to the battery... or should I clean up stuff again, better, use some kind of connector, tape it shut and try... or maybe since the positive battery terminal looks sort of cooked... would it be a bad battery??

 

[oldboat1]

a lot there. Can tell you on a simple hookup, ungrounded solenoid: Big term to bat (+), other big term to starter (+). one side starter button to big term with bat connection, second to a small post. second small post with wire to battery (-). The ground connection at the motor also goes to the battery neg post (-).

works. Cutoff switches aren't run through solenoid, as far as I know, but suppose one side of a cutoff switch could be, if neg post as in above connection (common ground with powerhead).

smoke never good....

 

[catbones]

a lot there. Can tell you on a simple hookup, ungrounded solenoid: Big term to bat (+), other big term to starter (+). one side starter button to big term with bat connection, second to a small post. second small post with wire to battery (-). The ground connection at the motor also goes to the battery neg post (-).

works. Cutoff switches aren't run through solenoid, as far as I know, but suppose one side of a cutoff switch could be, if neg post as in above connection (common ground with powerhead).

smoke never good....

yeah well sort of stuck, not sure what to replace... cables or battery... my battery is since 2012 ... autocraft or something, ... from previous owner ...

 

[oldboat1]

have to insure good battery first (or more to the point, rule out a bad battery). Have it tested and replace if tests poorly -- or just replace and be done with it.

 

[catbones]

have to insure good battery first (or more to the point, rule out a bad battery). Have it tested and replace if tests poorly -- or just replace and be done with it.

Yes going to autozone or advanced tomorrow, have them test it and see before anything. Might just be the battery since stuff works, then doesn't, works and doesn't, then sparks and what not .... I'll update when done.