FD-14 No spark.

[bonz_d]

Son just brought home a 1960 18hp Johnson FD-14 that he wants to keep and use. Of course I told him that I would help out with this. Compression on this thing is an even 100lbs on both cylinders which is great. The carb is also going to need to be done as well as the water pump. Problem is the ignition, there is no spark on either cylinder.

So far I've have taken the complete ignition plate off and have gone thru it. Removed and isolated the coils to ohm check them and they seem to test good on both the primary and secondary side. Plug wires also test good. Even ohm tested the coil secondary side thru the plug wire end after cutting off the plug wire and reseating it into the coil. Still no spark on either cylinder. So what could I be missing? Also the 2 wires from the kill button are currently disconnected from the button to the points.

 

[nwcove]

polish the points, then polish them again.

 

[bonz_d]

Finally have a chance to return to this.

Now here is my 1st question.

With the armature plate removed from the engine and the points disconnected if I put a meter lead from the #1 plug wire I am getting continuity between both coils secondary leads. Then if I remove one coil from the plate I only get continuity to the coil the plug wire is connected to. Is this normal? I don't think it should be doing this.

 

[F_R]

So, if I read the question correctly, you are saying you are getting continuity from one plug lead to the other plug lead? That would be normal. Current flow is going from tester to plug lead-to-coil secondary-to ground-to other coils ground lead-to other coils secondary-to other plug lead, back to tester. Resistance will be roughly double what one coil's secondary is.

 

[bonz_d]

No, I put the a meter lead to the plug wire for #1 cylinder the other lead to the secondary wire from each coil w/o moving the wire to the plug. So from one plug wire I get continuity from both coils. All wires are removed from the points.

This thing is getting no spark to either plug.

 

[oldboat1]

sounds like he might be checking/getting continuity between #1 plug boot (spring connector), and both coil ground wires -- with both coils installed on plate. That should be normal. Checking continuity between both plug boots is interesting, though -- would verify installation connections at both springs, both coil spikes, wires themselves, non-condenser ground connections of coils. I like that, in a single test.

Are magnets OK, and coils properly installed in relation to mags.? wires tucked in under flywheel? points...

edit. Kit with new condensers?

 

[bonz_d]

sounds like he might be checking/getting continuity between #1 plug boot (spring connector), and both coil ground wires -- with both coils installed on plate. ...

That is almost correct. Continuity is to both coils, to the leads that connect to the points.

 

[oldboat1]

ah. Now that doesn't sound right to me -- would expect continuity only on one side (closed points) -- set of point on the side of the #1 coil. Are the points gapped to open with the lobe on the shaft?

edit. set the point gap when a set of points catches the high point on that lobe, and opens. Then rotate 180 degrees clockwise and set the second set. (I use a foot on the prop, fwd gear -- or set the flywheel back on temporarily and turn clockwise by hand).

edit. Don't knock the shaft key out into the sawdust...

 

[bonz_d]

Points are not even in it. Trying to sort out the coils.

Let's start over. There is no spark to either cylinder.

Removed armature plate from motor. Stripped plate. Checked each coil isolated, not connected to anything with a Fluke digital meter set to k ohm. Ohm coil from primary side to secondary side leads. #1 reads 0.001, #2 reads 0.005. Ohm coil from secondary lead to coil post, #1 reads 6.21k, #2 reads 6.19k.

Installed coils on plate with spark plug leads installed. With the ground screws installed into both coils, still no points connected. This is were I am getting continuity between the #1 plug wire and the secondary lead that connects to the points on both coils.

Shouldn't I be getting continuity only to the #1 coil? As this is I am getting continuity from 1 plug to what would be both sets of points.

 

[geoffwga1]

I've seen a lot of mention of testing of the coils but no mention of their condition.If these are the original coils they are almost certainly shot and you will get some weird readings.Coils are fairly cheap (NAPA part# 18-5181)Recommend biting the bullet and getting a pair.

 

[oldboat1]

yeah, points installed or no points -- think you are right to expect continuity to only the condenser wire from the #1 coil. But I'm not sure what follows from that -- seem to be catching a common ground that should not exist, which could indicate a short. out of ideas and energy on this end, sorry.

(closer to your neck of the woods early tomorrow, visiting michigan. No fishing this time. Hope you and your son get the 18 running. I would be inclined to start replacing magneto parts.)

 

[bonz_d]

I've seen a lot of mention of testing of the coils but no mention of their condition.If these are the original coils they are almost certainly shot and you will get some weird readings.Coils are fairly cheap (NAPA part# 18-5181)Recommend biting the bullet and getting a pair.

Coils are not original. Look to be recently replaced along with both plug wires.

 

[bonz_d]

seem to be catching a common ground that should not exist, which could indicate a short. out of ideas and energy on this end, sorry.

(closer to your neck of the woods early tomorrow, visiting michigan. No fishing this time. Hope you and your son get the 18 running. I would be inclined to start replacing magneto parts.)

This is what I'm thinking but can't see anything that looks like a bad connection or wire. I've even isolated the kill wires.
Going thru Chitown?

 

[oldboat1]

nah. from upstate NY around Cleveland. closer via Ontario, but just usually go thru Ohio. visiting W. Michigan relatives (usually combine it with a trip up to the UP, but not this time around.) Too early for Fall fishing anyway.

old 18 has me baffled on this end (F_R prob has seen it before). I would prob end up putting it back together, and trying again -- but not very satisfying. Try the same tests with the other coil, if you haven't already. I've used ebasicpower for some troubleshooting, but that might be CD -- still, could be some relevant testing and procedures. Leroys site might have something.

will check back, but sorry I couldn't be more helpful. remains a mystery.

Best.

 

[bonz_d]

So, if I read the question correctly, you are saying you are getting continuity from one plug lead to the other plug lead? That would be normal. Current flow is going from tester to plug lead-to-coil secondary-to ground-to other coils ground lead-to other coils secondary-to other plug lead, back to tester. Resistance will be roughly double what one coil's secondary is.

So you are telling me that this is normal and as it should be. OK.
Everything is connected on the plate but the points as of right now and am getting an ohm reading of 12.33k between both spark plug leads. So what do you suggest as to next step?

I would think that after going through this and cleaning everything I would get at least some kind of spark on at least one cylinder.

 

[bonz_d]

All better now. Thanks!

 

[nwcove]

All better now. Thanks!

.......what was the fix?

 

[bonz_d]

Wish I knew! Had everything apart again last night, rechecked the coils and wires, chatted with you folks trying to sort this out. Reassembled the plate with the coils and put it back on. Put the spark tester on it, pulled it over and there it was! Nice bright blue spark on both cylinders. Don't know what I did different?

 

[AlTn]

I'd venture to say that the spark tester ground wasn't good

 

[bonz_d]

Whatever it was I can't say although it did need to be done. During preliminary testing there was no continuity between the coils and the ends of the spark plug leads. Pulled the wires from the coil pins, cut off about 1/2" of wire and that fixed that right away.

Hopefully I can finish going thru the fuel system tomorrow and then see if it will fire up. I can tell already that it will need new hose. It still has the glass bowl fuel filter on it and I'm wondering if I should just bypass it. Also need to fix a broken wire on the kill button.

All-in-all I am overall surprised at the condition of this engine. No idea of it's history other than it's been sitting a long time. The ignition parts all look new and the armature plate was clean. The inside of the carb was very clean also. A small amount of varnishing but that came off quite easily. The float also looks new. So with the very good compression readings I got at the beginning of this I'm thinking this could be a very strong runner.