Please help me with my school project!

[UWBusinessStudent]

What are your most important considerations when purchasing an outboard motor with less than 100 HP?

***Please only pick 3****

 

[GA_Boater]

This poll is open for business.

 

[Chris1956]

Gee, Only one of the above for a used motor. Good Compression, Condition of gearcase, Price.

You might update your Poll to indicate NEW motor purchase.

In that case, fuel economy, Environment friendly and purchase price......

 

[scipper77]

I must say that the definition "under 100 HP" is very broad. For my 12' pond hopper where I run a 5.5 HP or a 9.5 HP motor weight is more of a factor (I keep the motors in my shed).

My Sea Nymph is 16.5' long and runs around 30-50 HP. for that rig HP and noise are all important factors. Gas mileage is largely determined by the boat, not the motor now that 2 strokes are pretty much a thing of the past.

 

[southkogs]

And I would add that I don't care how easy it is to mount a 90HP outboard ... I'm not gonna' remove it that often. A 3HP is totally different gig ... wouldn't mind if that folded up and fit in my pocket, y'know?

For new motors, brand plays a big role too.

 

[UWBusinessStudent]

Thank you everybody! I would actually love to post a survey, but I am not sure how admin feels about that. Perhaps you all could help me with survey questions? Basically, I am trying to find out what type of boater is the most environmentally conscientious, what type of boater would use an electric motor with hp up to the equivalent of a 35-40 hp gas motor, what type of boater cares most about having a quiet outboard motor, whether price is more important than environmental impact, how much weight matters with an outboard motor (and on what type of boat does weight matter the most)?, basically the electric motor would weigh around 70 lbs. and would be virtually silent. How would boaters feel about an electric motor like that? Would they pay more for an environmentally friendly outboard? etc. I am not a boater, so I don't know what boaters consider with issues like this.

 

[roscoe]

A quiet 70# motor is good, but 700# of batteries to get me sufficient run time and get me safely back to harbor would be a bad thing.
Where and how do I charge these batteries in 8 hours time while I am camping for a week?
Or even when at home?
That electricity has to come from somewhere.
Where and how could these batteries fit in a boat, that would be small enough to be powered by a 35 hp motor?

Might be marketable to the senior crowd, who wants to put put around in a small pontoon.

In boating, we need portable energy.
Gasoline bar far, gives the most energy per pound, per gallon, per cubic foot, and is easily and quickly replenished.

 

[southkogs]

I would actually love to post a survey, but I am not sure how admin feels about that.

Sorry. Links to offsite polls are against our forum rules, however asking the questions is just fine. As long as we stay within that rule, the conversation is welcome and probably going to gain you some interesting information.

BTW - this topic has been posted about before. It's probably worth the effort for you to do a search of the forum on alternative fuel, electric motors and such (if you haven't already).

\what type of boater is the most environmentally conscientious?

I think many (if not the majority) boaters are environmentally conscious. I would call myself a conservationist vs. an environmentalist as the terms normally get used today - but I'm constantly watching how I'm interacting with both the waters I boat and the wildlife I encounter (<== some of which is other boaters ).

what type of boater would use an electric motor with hp up to the equivalent of a 35-40 hp gas motor

The adoption of electric trolling motors over the last few decades would suggest that use of electric would adopt quickly in boating applications were it made practical. Roscoe's point about "energy" and "bunkerage" for enough electricity is spot on.

what type of boater cares most about having a quiet outboard motor

I am But, it's an issue of noise under load. At idle, most of my motors have been/are reasonably quiet. BUT, the minute you spool any of 'em up to speed they get considerably noisier. If an electric motor is going to be quiet but only push me at 5KTS, it's not all that valuable compared to a gas motor. If it'll push me at 35KTS and be really quiet, now you've got my attention.

whether price is more important than environmental impact

Price will always be a driver - right now there are electric cars that are good vehicles; practical and energy efficient. But over a 5 year ownership, the cost savings is not substantial enough to move me from driving a 3/4 ton pickup truck (that I can buy at 1/4 the price) to a small four door electric car.

I'm a big fan of the Tesla, but can't make it practical enough to purchase.

how much weight matters with an outboard motor (and on what type of boat does weight matter the most

Weight vs. output matters on nearly any boat. And I'm guessing that your motor won't really be the heavy part in many cases ... it's going to be the batteries that add all the weight. A small utility boat (fishing as an example) weight will be a bigger concern because I'll be carrying the whole thing in the back of my pickup and my buddy and I have to mount the motor every time we go fish in the river. Conversely, a bigger outboard on my 20 foot sport boat can be considerably heavier because I'm not going to take it off the boat if I can avoid it.

basically the electric motor would weigh around 70 lbs. and would be virtually silent. How would boaters feel about an electric motor like that?

How many HP will the motor turn out, and how long will the batteries last at 75% power?

Would they pay more for an environmentally friendly outboard?

I wouldn't. But I would also contest that all "alternative energy" motors are more environmentally friendly. BUT I like alternative energy enough to consider it based on all sorts of factors - safety, power, performance, cleanliness, etc.

 

[WIMUSKY]

I found this option interesting:

Noise heard under the water

Never put my head in the water to listen, may want to ask the fish...

 

[DeepCMark58A]

Oh sure the electric motors are more environmentally, that is until you consider the carbon footprint of battery replacement, life expectancy, oh yeah and where does the electricity come from to charge the batteries?

 

[jbcurt00]

Straight solar charged batteries:

Odd fella, but his updates are addictive......

Very intriguing 3D printing of props for the twin outdrive setup

 

[UWBusinessStudent]

I must say that the definition "under 100 HP" is very broad. For my 12' pond hopper where I run a 5.5 HP or a 9.5 HP motor weight is more of a factor (I keep the motors in my shed).

My Sea Nymph is 16.5' long and runs around 30-50 HP. for that rig HP and noise are all important factors. Gas mileage is largely determined by the boat, not the motor now that 2 strokes are pretty much a thing of the past.

Yes - I realize that under 100hp is pretty broad (although I didn't when I posted the poll. I have learned a tremendous amount from my survey haha). The motor that we are conceptualizing is aimed to be equivalent to a 35-40 hp gas motor. We thought that if somebody wanted an electric up to 80 hp they could use two batteries.

What kind of weight are you looking for in a 5.5 hp or 9.5 hp motor for your pond hopper? (what is a pond hopper, and what do you use it for?) And, are you saying that weight doesn't matter on your 16.5' Sea Nymph? At that point all you really care about is noise and hp? How important is noise at that point? If the electric motor was virtually silent, would that interest you? And lastly, you say that gas mileage is determined by the boat...is that based on boat length, weight? I am so sorry I am so ignorant.

 

[UWBusinessStudent]

A quiet 70# motor is good, but 700# of batteries to get me sufficient run time and get me safely back to harbor would be a bad thing.T
Where and how do I charge these batteries in 8 hours time while I am camping for a week?
Or even when at home?
That electricity has to come from somewhere.
Where and how could these batteries fit in a boat, that would be small enough to be powered by a 35 hp motor?

Might be marketable to the senior crowd, who wants to put put around in a small pontoon.

In boating, we need portable energy.
Gasoline bar far, gives the most energy per pound, per gallon, per cubic foot, and is easily and quickly replenished.

First - thank you for responding

Second - The batteries could be plugged into any standard electrical outlet. I don't know how feasible that is for the camping that you do. I know that some people camp at places with outlets and some don't. If the batteries were not heavy, and you could keep extras on hand to swap out because they weren't too bulky or expensive, then would you be more interested? The electricity does have to come from somewhere, yes. What if the batteries could be charged with solar power?

"Where and how could these batteries fit in a boat, that would be small enough to be powered by a 35 hp motor?" - The batteries can go in the front and could help even out the weight distribution? I don't know. That is the kind of stuff I am looking to learn from people who boat What would be best? What would you want? What are your concerns, and how can they be overcome?

"That electricity has to come from somewhere." - is that something that would keep you from purchasing electric? that you don't think it is actually more environmentally friendly?

I don't know what size/type of boats use 35 hp outboard motors. Are outboard motors big on pontoons? Do they use 35 hp motors?

Thank you again for participating in this discussion with me.

 

[Silvertip]

80 HP using two batteries???????? You had best have a chat with your science teacher or someone who understands electrical engineering. Batteries are not containers of inexhaustable amounts of electricity. An LED bulb will run a very long time on a single battery. A 55# thrust trolling motor on a single battery will draw between 45 and 50 amps at full power. A typical 12 volt deep cycle battery will run that motor for only 3.4 - 4 hours. I don't know the actual HP rating of a 55# troller but it is probably in the 1 - 1.5 HP range. So do the math. 80 HP is 53 times more power so that alone should give you an idea what a folly you are conceptualizing (using two batteries). Gee whiz -- research electric cars and you will quickly see what the battery pack and motor requirements are.

 

[UWBusinessStudent]

Sorry. Links to offsite polls are against our forum rules, however asking the questions is just fine. As long as we stay within that rule, the conversation is welcome and probably going to gain you some interesting information.

BTW - this topic has been posted about before. It's probably worth the effort for you to do a search of the forum on alternative fuel, electric motors and such (if you haven't already).

***I did not know that. Thank you for telling me! I will certainly give it a look!

I think many (if not the majority) boaters are environmentally conscious. I would call myself a conservationist vs. an environmentalist as the terms normally get used today - but I'm constantly watching how I'm interacting with both the waters I boat and the wildlife I encounter (<== some of which is other boaters ).

How would you define conservationist vs. environmentalist? What types of things are you watching out for when interacting with the waters and wildlife? Air Pollution? Habitat Disturbance? Litter? Water Pollution? Do you consider any one aspect more important than another?

The adoption of electric trolling motors over the last few decades would suggest that use of electric would adopt quickly in boating applications were it made practical. Roscoe's point about "energy" and "bunkerage" for enough electricity is spot on.

What in your opinion would make it practical? What are the objections that need to be overcome specifically? What is an acceptable battery weight? What is an acceptable battery life and charge time?

I am But, it's an issue of noise under load. At idle, most of my motors have been/are reasonably quiet. BUT, the minute you spool any of 'em up to speed they get considerably noisier. If an electric motor is going to be quiet but only push me at 5KTS, it's not all that valuable compared to a gas motor. If it'll push me at 35KTS and be really quiet, now you've got my attention.

I am really sorry, I don't know what KTS is. What if the electric motor could run on a single battery at 35-40hp and up to 80 with a double battery set up, and was still practically silent at full speed? Quiet enough that you could carry on a conversation at a reasonable volume level without the motor noise getting in the way?

Price will always be a driver - right now there are electric cars that are good vehicles; practical and energy efficient. But over a 5 year ownership, the cost savings is not substantial enough to move me from driving a 3/4 ton pickup truck (that I can buy at 1/4 the price) to a small four door electric car.

Is there any factor that could get you over the price objection? for example, you are comparing a small four door electric car to your 3/4 ton pick up truck. What if you could have an electric 3/4 ton pick up? (ie. the electric motor would perform just as well as the gas motor at the same hp level)

I'm a big fan of the Tesla, but can't make it practical enough to purchase.

Weight vs. output matters on nearly any boat. And I'm guessing that your motor won't really be the heavy part in many cases ... it's going to be the batteries that add all the weight. A small utility boat (fishing as an example) weight will be a bigger concern because I'll be carrying the whole thing in the back of my pickup and my buddy and I have to mount the motor every time we go fish in the river. Conversely, a bigger outboard on my 20 foot sport boat can be considerably heavier because I'm not going to take it off the boat if I can avoid it.

Let's say the electric outboard would weigh 70 lbs. How much would the battery have to weigh for the set up to be attractive for you?

How many HP will the motor turn out, and how long will the batteries last at 75% power?

I don't know. How many would it have to turn out, and how long would the batteries need to last at 75% power for you to consider it?


I wouldn't. But I would also contest that all "alternative energy" motors are more environmentally friendly. BUT I like alternative energy enough to consider it based on all sorts of factors - safety, power, performance, cleanliness, etc.

*****Thank you so much for helping me with this! I truly appreciate it. I am a busy full time mom of three kids and a full time student. I have a really demanding course load this quarter and I am barely keeping my head above water. This has been super helpful. So, thank you.

 

[UWBusinessStudent]

I found this option interesting:

Noise heard under the water

Never put my head in the water to listen, may want to ask the fish...

haha! I know. It sounds silly. I risk sounding like an idiot while I am working on this. Mostly we were thinking that perhaps fishermen would care about the noise their motor makes under the water because of scaring the fish away.

 

[UWBusinessStudent]

Oh sure the electric motors are more environmentally, that is until you consider the carbon footprint of battery replacement, life expectancy, oh yeah and where does the electricity come from to charge the batteries?

Those are all very valid points. Are those what come to your mind when you think about electric vs. gas motors? Do you think the environmental impact isn't much better? What if the batteries could be charged via solar power? What if the batter could last for 10 years? What would overcome your objections?

 

[WIMUSKY]

haha! I know. It sounds silly. I risk sounding like an idiot while I am working on this. Mostly we were thinking that perhaps fishermen would care about the noise their motor makes under the water because of scaring the fish away.

When I get to my fishing spot I shut down the big motor and sneak in with my electric troller so I can catch 'em........ Other than that I'm not too worried and I don't think the fish are either......

 

[Tnstratofam]

Most inland lake fisherman already rely on an electric motor in the form of a trolling motor. My trolling motor allows for somewhat quiet movement in the water. Although I'm sure the disturbance from the prop could be off putting to some fish. I'm not sure the power to weight ratio of an electric motor with it's batteries versus a gas engine is comparable yet. Weight of gear, people, and fuel and supplies are managed on a boat based on the boats capabilities. So if you can get an electric motor with the same performance and weight that a gas engine offers at the same horsepower, with as quick a turn around time to recharge the batteries as one can refill a fuel tank, you will probably have a huge market. If the price is reasonable. Most boaters I know are as Southkogs put it conservationists, and willing to do what they can to protect our water ways and the air we breathe.

Overcoming objections for me would be a reliable power source that is affordable, convenient, long lasting, and most of all when it comes to boats dependable. Paddling my aluminum 16SS is difficult to say the least paddling our 20' fiberglass ski boat is nearly impossible. I'm not impressed enough with electric battery technology yet to switch any of our vehicles over from gas.

By the way my outboard is 34 years old, and other than the impeller and the occasional tune up she still runs fine. I'm not sure an electric outboard that sees the kind of use my gas outboard has would still be running at the same efficiency. Especially if I had to replace the battery banks every 10 years. Unless you can get the price on current batteries down significantly.

Just some random thoughts, and I encourage the development of all potential replacements for fossil fuels. Personally I would rather see more attention given to hydrogen fuel cell technology. That's just me though. Good luck on your project.

 

[littlerayray]

I found this option interesting:

Noise heard under the water

Never put my head in the water to listen, may want to ask the fish...

Boats are very noisy underwater and for good reason as a diver I can hear a boats motor from far and it's a good thing that way I don't get chewed up by props I know I'm not a fish but I'm the next best thing