1981 9.9 Evinrude Question # 2

[goblerblaster]

OK, this motor was supposedly running great, then died from a gas tank full of water. I took the carb off, cleaned it, put in a new float, and float needle- I did not pull the knock in plugs but did spray carb cleaner through all the orifices I could find. Reinstalled carb and motor will start and run for a few seconds and die like it is running out of gas. I unhooked the fuel line at the fuel pump, squeeze the bulb and gas squirts out. I then unhooked the gas line that feeds the carb, squeezed the bulb and gas squirts out. I can pump the bulb and it gets firm, choke the motor and it will start and run for a few seconds and die. I can wait about 10 minutes and not do any bulb pumping and it will start on first or second pull, then act like it is running out of gas, I can pull the choke lever in and out and keep it running for maybe 10 or 15 seconds and then it will die. After it dies, I can't get it to start unless it sits for 10 or 15 minutes. Then it will start and repeat the above described process.

What is this an indication of ? Before I pull the carb again, I thought someone might have an idea.

When it is running, it is not missing at all.

Thanks

 

[flyingscott]

If somebody ran water through it new plugs are in order and a compression test and did you adjust the low speed needle like I told you.

 

[Mohawkmtrs]

If the low speed needle was adjusted like FS directed, you may still have water-contaminated fuel in the fuel line.

Take off the fuel line from the fuel pump and squeeze the bulb until the fresh gas comes out, drain the float bowl, pump the bulb until hard and run it.

 

[Chrisravosa36]

adjust the low speed needle like I told you.

Id have to agree with him, check the speed adjustments dont take the carb off again yet, check the spark and compression too.

 

[goblerblaster]

Spark is good. Compression is 95/ 105. I did do the slow speed adjustment like you said. ​I did drain the gas out of the bulb and fuel line before reconnecting to the motor, but did not pump gas through the fuel pump and motor gas lines before trying to start it.

I have unhooked the fuel line where it enters the carb and pumped fresh gas out at that point. This float bowl does not have a drain screw. Only can drain the bowl by removing float bowl -which means removing the carb.

Any idea why it will start and run for a few seconds when I let it sit for 10 or 15 minutes and then won't start again until it sits? That seems weird to me !! Vent is open on the gas tank, etc. Pumping the bulb while it is running seems to have no impact.

Thanks

 

[AlTn]

sounds like the needle isn't being held off the seat long enough for the float bowl to fill properly....float wasn't installed upside down?...was the new needle rubber tipped?

 

[flyingscott]

sounds like the needle isn't being held off the seat long enough for the float bowl to fill properly....float wasn't installed upside down?...was the new needle rubber tipped?

I agree did you buy a new carb kit or just clean if you need a kit buy the factory one. When you set the float you need to tip the carb upside down and set the float to level. Also you need to change the plugs if water hits a spark plug they are done for. Also go through your cold start procedure for us could be simple.

 

[goblerblaster]

Carb Kit is new

The old needle was rubber tipped, new needle is not. I just took the carb off and it was full of gas. On the parts diagram ( from Marine Engines website) , the lead shot shown as #2 was not present when I pulled the knock out plug #5. There were no blockages behind this plug and I can see the end of the needle barely extending into this chamber when seated and backed of one turn. I mean the chamber that plug number 5
covers.
​What is the purpose of the lead shot and what size should I put in there if needed?

In the new carb kit there was a little white nylon cup that appeared to fit over the needle on the pointed end and behind the packing bushing where the "lean/rich" knob seats against when installed on the carb. The pointed end of the needle would go through the cup and the cup would slide up to where the brass part starts- the steel part of the needle would not be covered by this cup.Since I could not identify this part on the parts diagram from Marine Engines website, I did not install it. Should it be installed and if so, where does it go?( I tried to post the link to the parts website, buy can't get it to work) It seems that there is very little way much air can get through the hole that the needle is plugging into that small chamber covered by the knock in plug- even when backed off a turn.

The spark is good every time I have checked it. Like I said earlier, when it starts it runs without missing until it seems to be running out of gas.

Float is correct side up and level.

Cold start procedure is to pump the bulb,pull the choke for 3 or 4 pulls, if it starts or hits push choke in and pull till it starts. It has probably run a total of about one minute today, but only 5 to 15 seconds at a time. It ran the longest when I had the fuel line disconnected from the motor and feathered the choke off and on while it was running.

I am going to wait to hear about the lead shot and nylon cup before putting it back on to try again.

Thanks for all the advise !!

 

[AlTn]

just would add this...the main jet < office plug > for that motor is located at the base of the casting from the carb body that extends into the float bowl, it's brass and easy to distinguish...that jet must be as clean as you can get it without distorting the size of the jet..unless you have a screwdriver that will fit that slot perfectly, I'd suggest you clean it in place..something softer than brass and smaller than the opening can be passed through it to help...fishing line, copper wire, etc...just don't break it off in the jet

 

[flyingscott]

Try this pull the choke out and turn the throttle up as far as it will go. Now pull until the motor starts if it starts and dies then push the choke in leave the throttle up and start it. If it stays running leave the choke out until the motor stumbles and then push the choke back in and wait for it to rev up, when it does then back the throttle down to the idle speed you set. You do not have the plastic bearing in your carb unless you drilled the lead shot out you do not need to replace it. Very seldom do you ever take the lead shot out. Not all the carbs are the same so the kit covers many years so you may have extra parts.

 

[oldboat1]

There should be three lead shots in your carb. If in place I would leave them. If one is missing, blow into the opening with carb cleaner and seal with another lead shot -- part of a lead sinker, or a shotgun pellet, or a dab of thickened epoxy. They were part of the manufacturing process, and you should be able to sufficiently blow out passages underneath when the idle circuit is opened up (expansion plug).

Standard approach is to rebuild the carb with a kit, as you are doing, pulling the plug up at the top and cleaning out the slow speed circuit up there (think you have also done that, and noted the position of the needle through the opening). I wouldn't use the white bushing for your assembly (tip should fit like you describe). With carb disassembled, soak the metal parts in a solvent of your choice, then clean every orifice with small wire or mono line, and blow out with carb spray. If using the rubber tipped needle at the carb float, use the little wire clip as well (fits over the float arm, and hooks to the needle).

I would also rebuild the fuel pump. Kits are readily available. Replace all fuel hoses with new.

After it's back together, do the link and sync, and set the low speed needle (about 1 1/2 out, then adjust from there after the engine has run a bit). Set it as lean as you can (clockwise) without stalling or a lean sneeze. As you lean the mix, rpms will increase. Back off rpms using the twist grip, and go back to needle adjustment. When finished, it should run smoothly in gear, in the lake or a bucket (back pressure), and shift in an out of gear without stalling. Check engine temp throughout. The impeller maybe be due for replacement. Engine surface temp at the top of the head should not be so hot it burns your hand. Your motor also has a thermostat, and may need to be replaced, particularly if running in salt water.

You've said the spark is good -- need to confirm that with an adjustable spark tester, set to about a half inch. Your plugs may be OK with cleaning and regapping, or just replace them.

Chances are that idle stop adjustment knob on the right side is not part of the process, unless you can't idle down the engine using the twist grip (idle stop setting holds rpms up for a set trolling speed, or at a setting the operator wants for low idle).

I would start and run with an ounce or so of dry gas in a gallon of fresh gas and 2-stroke, and let the motor run that out. (By this time you are probably and expert removing and replacing the recoil starter -- need to use the trick with the nut to hold the assembly together, and take care in getting the red plastic lever and spring in place on reassembly. It might be easier to take the flywheel off -- more access, but not necessary.)

 

[goblerblaster]

I think I found the problem---now I have a big problem......the "lean/rich" needle was stuck into the opening that is covered by plug #5. When I backed off the adjusting knob the needle was not moving as it was stuck in the hole. Seems the steel needle separated from the brass piece. I can unscrew the brass piece but the steel needle does not move. I attempted to push the needle back out from the hole covered by plug 5 but it bent the end of the needle so now I can't get it out. I guess it was not running out of gas but out of air. Maybe that explains why if it sat for 10 minutes it would start.

​I am soaking the carb and brass portion of needle valve in Berrymans carb cleaner. When I tried to push the needle back up , the end of the needle bent. Now I am going to try to file it off with a dremel tool , then dry everything and put JB weld inside the brass piece of the needle and screw it on to the steel piece of the needle- let it dry good and see if it will unscrew and pull the needle out of the chamber that it is seated in - covered by plug # 5.

It may be Ebay time for a new carb, At least I think now I know it was not getting air coz the needle was loose and me adjusting the knob had no impact. The hole was completely plugged.

Any suggestions at this point ??? I can't get pliers down the hole to try to pull out the steel end of the needle. I was thinking of putting a torch on it to see if it would expand and loosen....

 

[flyingscott]

Take the welch plug out and see if the needle is sticking into the opening. You might be able to push it that way but be careful. Where are you located I have a carb for a 9.9

 

[goblerblaster]

I am in Russellville, AR 72802 What part number on the part diagram is the welch plug? I really appreciate all your help.

 

[flyingscott]

Right on top of the carb is a core plug #5 drill a 1/4"/5/16' hole through it and pop it out with a screw driver. The needle might be sticking through there and let you grab it and give it a push. Be careful drilling the hole don't let the drill fall through it and hit the bottom of the carb. Let me know how it goes

 

[oldboat1]

Was thinking you were already in there (core plug removed), and ended up bending the tip. But if not, get the plug out as indicated. After thorough soaking, you can try to move the end out with a small bladed screw driver. With softer brass needles, it's usually the tip protruding through that breaks off. With some care, you might be able to save yours as it may be less delicate. You might try the tip of a soldering iron to heat the needle, then maybe spray it with some WD-40 to get some contraction -- then try again to push it out.

You can use the kit parts in a replacement carb, of course -- will obviously want to completely disassemble and soak the replacement, and go through a proper cleaning procedure if going that route.

 

[goblerblaster]

yes. plug out and tip bent. I pushed it with a screw driver and bent it. Ive got to grind off the tip and try to get it out back through the hole, but really cant get a push on it when I do that. That is why I'm going to try JB weld on the brass part and try to get it to stick to the steel needle part that is hung up. Maybe then I can unscrew it out.

​FS ,send me an email to goblerblaster@gmail.com about your carb and how much you want for it. I am afraid that is going to be my best option, but I will try to fix this one first.

I still don.t know what the point of the lead shot- or what size to put in there- is and what is its purpose?
Thanks

 

[flyingscott]

Get a set of good dental picks you may be able to push it out with them.

 

[oldboat1]

^^might work. On plugs (fyi): http://forums.iboats.com/forum/engi...10013-78-johnson-15hp-lead-shot-in-carburator