Kansas City PM38 Build [Splashed 2017]

[gm280]

Well, best laid plans ................ I ended up breaking the mahogany. I must not have steamed it long enough, just as it got into position it snapped. So i ordered some white oak and should have it in a week or so.

The stem is shaped and ready for the band to be installed. So I flipped the boat over so I can start finishing the bow framing and sheer rails while I am waiting on wood to arrive. I can also start the epoxy coating process, I have plenty to keep me busy!

Scott

White oak will work. But again it all depends on how steamed it is what you start to bend it. But white oak is a very strong grained wood and doesn't rot very easily either. Everybody has issues and problems building things, and now you did too. But that doesn't stop the projects. It just is a temporary setback. JMHO

 

[SGoergen]

No Title

White oak will work. But again it all depends on how steamed it is what you start to bend it. But white oak is a very strong grained wood and doesn't rot very easily either. Everybody has issues and problems building things, and now you did too. But that doesn't stop the projects. It just is a temporary setback. JMHO

I completely agree, I am not going to let the stem band win! When to oak gets here I'll make sure to steam it a little longer before trying to bend it into position. The goal for the project is to hit the water in the spring, I have all winter to work on it so no need to hurry. Here area few pics of the boat right side up.

 

[gm280]

You have certainly come a long ways in a short time. :thumb:

 

[Woodonglass]

On other consideration is the use 1/8" strips and laminate them together to form the bend. I've done this on multiple occasions and it yields a very strong unit. If cut from the same piece of wood, kept in cutting order, and re-glued, you won't be able to tell the piece has been laminated. Of course if you'll be painting it it won't make any difference.

 

[Ned L]

The mahogany most likely snapped because it was kiln dried. Where are you getting your oak from? Any chance you can see that is not kiln dried? "Green" (sawn within the past 6 months or so), and not kiln dried would be best.
How long are you steaming it for? 1 hour for every inch of thickness is good. More than that really doesn't gain you anything. And you need to work fast (like 30 seconds for a piece your size).

She's looking really nice!

And WOG has good advise. If you can't get a single piece that wants to bend you can always laminate it. 1/4" lams should take the bend just fine.

 

[gm280]

The mahogany most likely snapped because it was kiln dried. Where are you getting your oak from? Any chance you can see that is not kiln dried? "Green" (sawn within the past 6 months or so), and not kiln dried would be best.
How long are you steaming it for? 1 hour for every inch of thickness is good. More than that really doesn't gain you anything. And you need to work fast (like 30 seconds for a piece your size).

She's looking really nice!

And WOG has good advise. If you can't get a single piece that wants to bend you can always laminate it. 1/4" lams should take the bend just fine.

Yea, if I remember correctly Norm Abrams (New Yankee Workshop) steamed oak before and he worked really quickly once he remove the wood from the streamer. It is not only the water but the heat as well that allows you to bend the wood. He did bend the wood in some very aggressive bends too.

 

[SGoergen]

Ned L - I would assume it was kiln dried, it was purchased from Menards a while back. I steamed the piece for approx. 30 minutes, so probably not enough. I am thinking about using the lamination idea Woodonglass suggested with the new white oak. I don't know if the oak is kiln dried or air dried, so thin strips laminated together might be a better bet.

Scott

 

[Woodonglass]

IMHO a laminated piece yields a stronger end result and is much more forgiving during the fabrication process, and you can bend almost any type wood in the process.

 

[gm280]

I agree that cutting the wood to thinner pieces will yield a more bendable ability, BUT, you have to have it a little thicker then what you want because the saw kerf will remove thickness after it is all said and done. You can't expect to take a 1" thick piece of wood and make a few cuts and glue it back together and still have a 1" thick piece of wood after it is finished. So depending on the saw you use, you have to take into account the blade thickess and kerf it makes.JMHO

 

[Ned L]

You said the stem is 1/2" thick, so 30 minutes should have been good. The curve of you stem is fairly mild, so I suspect the mahogany you had was well dried and just wasn't going to get there in one piece.

Here is what you can do with nice white oak.

As suggested, you may well be better off laminating.


Here are some curved hand rails I had to duplicate. They are almost 9 feet long.

I started with some good size pieces of mahogany. (The trash can on the right is an indicator of how much ends up as sawdust.)

As said, first you need to mill the wood into the laminations (1/4" here). If using a table saw you will lose almost 50% of your material when using 1/4" laminations.. I'm about 99% certain this mahogany was well kiln dried.

I build a form to clamp the laminations to.

They were glued up with resourcinol glue. (Rsourcinol is the most waterproof and heat resistant glue there is, better than epoxy, and the only glue FAA approved for wooden aircraft fames). However it does require tight glue lines and high clamping pressures. Epoxy is actually better off with looser glue lines.

Clamp it all to the form.

For you boat it is far easier to glue up and fasten in place on the boat.

Here is what you have after the glue cures.

Then you clean things up.

And finally they get installed.

Done well, you have a hard time telling it is a lamination and not one piece.


Another advantage of laminating is that you get to move slowly, think things through and have it all planned and practiced (accept for the actual gluing, which limits you to the pot life of the glue).

 

[gm280]

Ned L, that is some nice bend woodwork there. I have ever tried bending any type wood. However, my feeble mind things that even kiln dried wood, put in a good steamer long enough, would yield to the moisture and bend. Once the moisture penetrates the wood fibers, it has to bend. So kiln dried wood may take a loonnnggger time in the steamer. But what do I know? Please don't answer that. :facepalm:

Anyway, laminating the bends is a very solid way to get both bends and strength. Just have to watch for the kerf loses when cutting. JMHO

 

[Woodonglass]

I remember when you did this...Exceptional craftsmanship and GREAT tutorial on Wood Lamnation.:first:

 

[Baylinerchuck]

I remember when you did this...Exceptional craftsmanship and GREAT tutorial on Wood Lamnation.:first:

Agreed, wow!!!

 

[SGoergen]

Ned L. - That's some awesome craftsmanship! I am going to make a form block for the stem and laminate the white oak, The oak I ordered came yesterday, I stripped it down into 1/8" thick strips, all I need to do now is make the block. I have the template I used for the stem so that shouldn't be too hard to duplicate. My stem band will be covered in epoxy and painted, so I can hide any mistakes!

Thanks for all the replies. This has been a pretty interesting project, learning a lot as I go.

Scott

 

[SGoergen]

No Title

Made some more progress, got the stem form cut and laminated the stem band from 1/8" strips of white oak. It may not come out a pretty as Ned's, but I gave it a shot.

I also got the sheer rails installed and the sides trimmed down. The boat has some really cool lines! Next step is work on the bow frame and dashboard.

Scott

 

[gsxrdan]

*Jaw drops* beuuuudifull :joyous:

 

[gm280]

Looks pretty good to me. And I have always said, you can never have too many clamps. :thumb:

 

[SGoergen]

Thank you for the nice comments! I am making good progress and hope to get more done this weekend.

As I get closer to completing the inside framework, I am trying to figure out what primer to use. All the wood will receive a coating of epoxy, then it will need to be primed and painted. I am looking for something that will protect the wood but not break the budget either. The final paint on the inside will most likely be a bildge paint, but I am also wondering if marine enamel would work? Thoughts?

Scott

 

[Patfromny]

I'm not completely sure but I thought I'd put this out there for the wood specialists to agree, expand on, or shoot down. I am assuming you are epoxying the whole boat? if so, maybe you can varnish over the epoxy. I think any paint will eventually scratch with foot traffic and be a pain to keep up with. A varnish is easier to touch up and will look wood boat correct too. if that is doable, that is the direction I would head. Once again, I'm not sure if you can varnish over epoxy but I'm sure someone will come along and let you know Yay or Nay.

 

[gm280]

What about an epoxy paint? That would certainly work with an epoxy base. Or it would seem so. Most any other type coating will probably scratch off because the base epoxy is the harder substance. But I honestly don't know, just speculating on my part. :noidea: