New CDI regulator states to NOT use AGM batteries or warranty is void

[cfauvel]

1986 225 hp Evinrude,

can someone explain to me why CDI states to not use AGM batteries?

 

[GA_Boater]

What's the part number of the regulator?

 

[cfauvel]

CDI 193-3689

 

[cfauvel]

the current one has been on there for probably since 2009, and this year noticed sometimes I wouldn't get a charge to the batteries, or the charge would shoot up to 16V, and sometimes the tach would go out, so figured it was time to get a new regulator....paid a little more from some company to get a 3 year warranty, but the package clearly states DON'T USE AGM or warranty voided....I like my AGMs

The AGM batteries have been there for at least 5 years...I keep a Battery Tender on them.....

 

[roscoe]

the current one has been on there for probably since 2009, and this year noticed sometimes I wouldn't get a charge to the batteries, or the charge would shoot up to 16V, and sometimes the tach would go out, so figured it was time to get a new regulator....paid a little more from some company to get a 3 year warranty, but the package clearly states DON'T USE AGM or warranty voided....I like my AGMs

.

Maybe thats why you are buying a new regulator.

I would contact cdi and ask them.
They are usually pretty good at passing along info.

 

[alldodge]

Agree with roscoe, contact cdi and try to get tech support and not a sales guy. Just thinking out loud, the AGM takes a charge faster and at a different rate then lead acid. While the charge level is not that much different the amount of charge they can take at one time can increase the current. Increase current may be the issue, don't know just guessing

 

[cfauvel]

I'll do that on Tuesday...just hoping someone would know why during weekend

 

[dingbat]

https://issuu.com/cdielectronics/docs/understanding_batteries

Page 3 - Direct from the source

 

[cfauvel]

https://issuu.com/cdielectronics/docs/understanding_batteries

Page 3 - Direct from the source

based on that i seems that NOBODY should be using AGMs unless your boat's regulator is designed for them ....surely by now CDI could figure out what is needed to their regulators to make them work with AGMs...

ugh hopefully I can sell my AGMs

anybody has recommendation for Non-Maintenance-Free starting and dual purpose flooded lead acid battery with around 750 CCA?

 

[F_R]

https://issuu.com/cdielectronics/docs/understanding_batteries

Page 3 - Direct from the source

Written by some technical writer that has no idea what he is writing about. All that information is available all over the net. But why not answer the question. Why does use of an AGM battery void the regulator/rectifier warranty? C'mon, CDI, put an engineer on here to explain. And don't be afraid to use technical terms. Believe it or not, some of us just might understand.

 

[GA_Boater]

based on that i seems that NOBODY should be using AGMs unless your boat's regulator is designed for them ....surely by now CDI could figure out what is needed to their regulators to make them work with AGMs...

ugh hopefully I can sell my AGMs

anybody has recommendation for Non-Maintenance-Free starting and dual purpose flooded lead acid battery with around 750 CCA?

Simple answer - CDI is making a direct replacement regulator, not an upgraded regulator. So if the original OEM regulator wasn't AGM compatible, neither would an aftermarket replacement.

 

[dingbat]

Written by some technical writer that has no idea what he is writing about. All that information is available all over the net. But why not answer the question. Why does use of an AGM battery void the regulator/rectifier warranty? C'mon, CDI, put an engineer on here to explain. And don't be afraid to use technical terms. Believe it or not, some of us just might understand.

Ugh, the "technical writer with no idea" has worked R&D and Techical services for CDI for the past 24 years....
https://www.linkedin.com/search/?keywords=Clark Beard

 

[F_R]

Then act like it and tell us what we want to know.

 

[bruceb58]

Maybe I am missing something but where in that CDI paper does it say anything about why you shouldn't use a CDI regulator with an AGM battery?

Likely because the voltage isn't regulated low enough but it would be interesting to know for sure. Maybe the tech writer with 24 years experience can ask an engineer within the company if that's the case.

 

[GA_Boater]

Maybe I am missing something but where in that CDI paper does it say anything about why you shouldn't use a CDI regulator with an AGM battery?

Don't know about all CDI regs, but this one does.

CDI installation - http://www.cdielectronics.com/wp-con...S-193-3689.pdf

 

[bruceb58]

Don't know about all CDI regs, but this one does.

CDI installation - http://www.cdielectronics.com/wp-con...S-193-3689.pdf

I had already read that.

It says the following

DO NOT USE A MAINTAINENCE FREE, AGM OR DRY CELL BATTERY WITH THIS TYPE REGULATOR/RECTIFIER AS THIS TYPE BATTERY MAY DAMAGE THE REGULATOR/RECTIFIER AND VOID THE WARRANTY!!!

Nothing else in there says why though. Doesn't even state what output voltage is!

 

[Fed]

DO NOT USE A MAINTAINENCE FREE, AGM OR DRY CELL BATTERY WITH THIS TYPE REGULATOR/RECTIFIER AS THIS TYPE BATTERY MAY DAMAGE THE REGULATOR/RECTIFIER AND VOID THE WARRANTY!!!

Three exclamation marks!!!
Sounds like something out of Seinfeld!!!

I say the author should be tracked down then put a big bright light over his head & grill him until he's done.

AGM aside is there any difference between a maintenance free battery and a battery with caps, none that I'm aware of.

 

[cfauvel]

Three exclamation marks!!!
Sounds like something out of Seinfeld!!!

I say the author should be tracked down then put a big bright light over his head & grill him until he's done.

AGM aside is there any difference between a maintenance free battery and a battery with caps, none that I'm aware of.

other documentation from CDI state DO NOT use ANY maintenance free batteries....

just good old fashion wet flooded full maintenance batteries...

 

[dingbat]

Maybe I am missing something but where in that CDI paper does it say anything about why you shouldn't use a CDI regulator with an AGM battery?

Likely because the voltage isn't regulated low enough but it would be interesting to know for sure.

Ding,ding, ding.....

Per CDI documentation. They make regulated and unregulated models. Don't think your AGM would like the 16 volt output allowed by the spec sheet.

The regulated version spec is 12.5 to 14.2 volts. It's clearly noted in the documentation that these voltages don't met the charging requirements of gel and AGM batteries.

Gel and AGM "batteries will see a gradual degradation in performance over time" from inadaquent charging. They go on to say AGM and Gel batteries should fully charged with an approved charger before use with their regulators.

Maybe my commercial background but it's quite obvious to me at least, that the warranty disclaimer is to cover AGM and gel battery damage claims.

 

[cfauvel]

Ding,ding, ding.....

Per CDI documentation. They make regulated and unregulated models. Don't think your AGM would like the 16 volt output allowed by the spec sheet.

The regulated version spec is 12.5 to 14.2 volts. It's clearly noted in the documentation that these voltages don't met the charging requirements of gel and AGM batteries.

Gel and AGM "batteries will see a gradual degradation in performance over time" from inadaquent charging. They go on to say AGM and Gel batteries should fully charged with an approved charger before use with their regulators.

Maybe my commercial background but it's quite obvious to me at least, that the warranty disclaimer is to cover AGM and gel battery damage claims.

actually the wording comes across not as a warning for the battery, rather a warning to the regulator being damaged by having an AGM....

I think a few above kind of explained it.

Not ALL of their regulators have this requirement, just THIS one for 225hp looper of the 80s(I'm sure a few more).
and another poster stated that they make exact replacement of the original equipment, thus don't assume any upgrades....bummer.

definitely been seeing voltage spikes in the 16v range whilst running....so that's pretty high...probably not great for the battery, but haven't seen any issues in that regard, but I don't want to risk damage to the regulator....sooooo....going to follow instructions and replace the AGMs with typical batteries and sell the AGMs...

from what I read on a battery maker's website, not a lot of outboards recommend the AGM...their site had ONLY the honda outboards with AGMs..

sad...the AGMs I have, been there for years and perfect, the previous non-maintenance-free flooded batteries lasted maybe 1 or 2 years....UGHHHHHHH