what is better for rough water: a 21' deep V, or a 24' semi-V?

[melontable]

Looking for a boat to use slightly offshore or in bays where things might get choppy (1, maybe 2 feet on a bad day). I'm looking at a few boats right now and really liking two: a 21' with a deeper V that actually comes to a point at the transom, and a 24' that still has a relatively steep deadrise at the transom, but less so than the 21'. Also, the 24' doesn't come to the same kind of "point" at the V. It has a softer "point", more rounded.

I know that V is supposed to help, but length is also supposed to help, so is one better than the other? Right now I'm using a 19 footer that has good deadrise at the bow but is totally flat by the time it gets back to the transom, and the pound is unbelievable when the wind kicks up. Looking for something to get me through chop without knocking my teeth out.

thanks!

 

[alldodge]

Howdy

My opinion: The deeper the V the better the ride, also the heavier the boat the better the ride

 

[melontable]

Hi AllDodge,

Thanks for your reply. So you think that the difference between a semi V and a deep V is unable to be negated by length?
thanks!!

 

[alldodge]

Hi AllDodge,

Thanks for your reply. So you think that the difference between a semi V and a deep V is unable to be negated by length?
thanks!!

For the most part yes, the extra 3 feet in length between the boats your discussing will help because it will be heavier, but the beeper the V the easier it will take a wave.

Another opinion: thus is way boats like Cobalt, Formula, Cigarette and others all hulls are deep V and heavy, they are made to take the open water

 

[ahicks]

How fast are we going?

 

[Sprig]

1 to 2' of chop "on a bad day" is nothing for a 21 or 24' boat whether deep v or simi v. If that's the worst then get which ever one you like the best cause it won't much difference.

 

[mr 88]

One other thing to take into consideration is the type of fishing you plan on doing,if your slow trolling or drift fishing the boat with LESS deadrise will not rock as much,in your case the 24' . If I was going out in one to two footers I would go with the 24 , unless it was a 25 + mile jaunt. If your talking 10 -20 miles all you have to do is ease off the throttle and if it takes you 5 more minutes to get to a place where your going to fish for 3-8 hours then bigger and less deadrise is the way to go. Heck if you look at the Wicked Tuna boats they are as close to 0 degrees dead rise as you can get, A test ride when there is some wave action might help you make up your mind as well. Going from a 19 to a 24 is like going from a dirt backroad to a freshly paved highway.

 

[b.gagnon]

I would get the 24'..... a 21' with a deep "v" will rock like crazy! To give a true answer you need to find out the actual deadrise.. I have a 21' CC with a 20deg deadrise and it is a good mix of stability while being able to run in 2' Chop...

 

[Old Ironmaker]

2 feet is a calm day on Lake Erie. I don't know a single body of water other than a farm pond that has less than 2' feet of chop. Glass or aluminum? I have a deep V of 19 feet aluminum and buddy has a shallower flatter 21' aluminum of the same brand. They are about equal.

 

[tpenfield]

Maybe it would help to know the brand/model of the 2 boats under consideration. Got any specs for the amount of deadrise of the boats?

 

[JoLin]

I'd also like detail on the 2 boats, to do a little research. Best rough water boat I've owned was a 1999 Chris Craft 24' express cruiser with 22 deg. deadrise at the transom. Worst is the current Carver with 15 deg. Deadrise alone doesn't tell the whole story, however, so I'd like to know more.

 

[dingbat]

What body of water are you boating on?

Rough is a relative term and wave heights are usually wildly exaggerated. In the end, the average wave period will have a huge influence on the type of hull you select.

My home waters are the Cheasapeake. A body of water infamous for its close, short chop that will beat you to death with 2'ers.

The hull of choice in the Cheasapeake is a mod-v or in my case (Grady White) a constant variable hull with a very agreesive 45 degree deadrise in the bow tapering to a ~22 degree deadrise at the transom. I say roughly because the "deadrise" at the transom is round.

 

[melontable]

Wow, was note expecting this many replies. thanks!!

Alldodge: thanks for the information. Sounds like a balance, which I will take into consideration.

ahicks: I guess I don't have much of a speed plan. My 19 footer goes about 20mph tops, which I can do no problem when the water is flat. But then, depending on the water, once any chop kicks up, I have to slow down to about 5mph so I'm not at all on a plane in order to let the bow go through the waves first and direct them around the hull. Otherwise, as soon as I start to get on a plane, the flat bottom just slams every wave and throws a ton of spray into the boat, and it also feels really bad for the boat. Ideally, I'd like to get a new boat up to about 25mph or so?

Sprig: I hope you're right. I worry because it's so bad in my 19 footer. It's so good when it's flat, and then as soon as things kick up it's just awful. I'm hoping that any additional V and some length will make the difference.

mr 88: I fish mostly sitting still, but do troll slowly on occasion. The issues I have with my boat now isn't the fishing so much as the moving from one place to another. I sometimes travel 10-15 miles over the course of a fishing day, and that's tough when I feel like I'm going to rattle my boat apart! But never 25 miles at a time. I agree, I'm worried about the rocking. I guess I don't know whether the difference between a deep and a semi-V makes that much difference in the rocking?

b.gagnon: I will try to find out the deadrise. They are both starcrafts so I'm guessing people are familiar with the deadrise, even if I don't know the angle? will talk more about that in a later reply!

Old Ironmaker: Aluminum, they are both starcrafts. Looks like you have a sportfisherman.... so in your experience, there's relatively little difference between a 21' deep v and a 19' semi-v, even in a pretty wild lake like erie? You think that the extra 2' makes up for the lack of V?

tpenfield: I have an uncle and a friend who are both "maybe" willing to sell their starcrafts to me, one is a 24' chieftain with the softer V and one is a 21' islander with the deeper V.

Photos: sorry, i tried to attach but it says I'm not authorized to create or remove attachments.... so i had to put links

The chieftain looks more like this:
http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/theoadam/media/bWVkaWFJZDoxMDUzNjQ3ODc=/?ref=

while the islander looks more like this:

http://forums.iboats.com/forum/boat...pair/531137-help-with-starcraft-islander-221v

(the 3rd picture down)


I don't know the actual deadrise but I feel like people are familiar with starcrafts?

JoLin: please see above: they are starcrafts! I don't know the actual deadrise but I'm sure I can find out if the photos aren't any help

dingbat: I think that's my problem, I have to deal with relatively small but really close waves so I can't help but slam my hull into the next wave as I crest one. Which hull (given these two) would you think would be better in the cheasapeake? That will likely tell me a lot.

Thanks so much everyone!!

 

[mr 88]

Since its a friend and a Uncle, go for a ride on the same day to compare them. Yes there is a difference in a Deep V and Semi V when drifting or trolling. The distance your going and what your doing when you get there would lead me to the bigger semi V boat.

 

[Old Ironmaker]

Teds 21 foot StarCraft Heritage trolls better than my 19' StarCraft Superfisherman 190 deep V when it's windy. Mine will toss around badly when the wind is in my face. I can't compare the 2 boats you are looking at because I have never been in a Chieftain, many hrs spent in an Islander. Take out both boats and decide for yourself, it's the only way to compare, on the water. Design stats are fine and dandy but nothing like a ride on the water.

 

[b.gagnon]

You are not going to be happy with any Aluminum boat..... They simply don't have the weight! Go fiberglass and don't look back!

 

[tpenfield]

Neither one of the boats mentioned are going to be wave crushers by any means. Get the one that suits you best.

 

[Texasmark]

Howdy

My opinion: The deeper the V the better the ride, also the heavier the boat the better the ride

+1. But it comes at a price and you have to ask yourself, what matters, your back/butt or your wallet. Soft riders are power and fuel hungry. But I'll pay the price. Also the flatter the bottom the more stable at rest. Part of the what you have to give up for a soft ride, but it's not that big of a deal, just different.

 

[melontable]

thanks again for all the replies!

mr 88: Good advice, I will try to do direct comparisons. Unfortunately they both live about 6 hours from me in opposite directions and one is near the ocean while one is near a large, flatter (I assume) lake! But even some ride tests in different bodies of water on different days will tell me something, I'm sure. thanks for the advice!

old ironmaker: good to know about the wind, I hadn't really thought about it. And wind is a big concern for me, so I'll have to take that into consideration. thanks!

b.gagnon: Interesting. My worry about fiberglass is that I don't know how to work on it, and I hear concerns about the stringers rotting out and boats just... sinking while under way. Aluminum, I get. I can TIG weld?not like i'd trust myself to weld a critical component, but I can do small cosmetic repairs myself, and it just means I'm familiar with metal in general?and I've just always had aluminum boats. I'm very comfortable riveting and am familiar with all the sealants, and it just seems easier. If I'm looking into a glass boat, i'm worried about.... what happens if I have stringer issues? How can i be sure my boat is in good condition? I just don't understand fiberglass, so I don't know what I'm looking at nearly as much as with aluminum, and I'm not confident in my ability to fix the things that go wrong.

Happy to hear counterpoints. I've never really sat down with someone and had them explain what to look for in a glass boat, or how to spot stringer issues (I've googled all this, but without putting it into practice, I don't have much confidence in myself), etc. Is there a good resource for someone who is thinking about switching over, but doesn't know where to start? thanks!

tpenfield: Point taken, I was kind of expecting an answer like that. thanks!

Texasmark: My primary concern is safety, so I lean towards aluminum because it's strong, and because I trust myself to spot/fix issues on an aluminum boat more than fiberglass, and because better fuel economy makes it less likely that I'll get stranded. That being said, I'm leaning towards the larger semi-V because I do so much fishing at rest. thanks for the input!


thanks again all!

 

[Texasmark]

I had a Starcraft 18' I/O that was definitely a deep water boat. It was a semi V however and light. I did hit a few stumps over the years and dented the hull near the transom. The problem with alum on that boat was when you do as I did you can dislodge a rivet where the obstruction rubs over the rib then pushes against the non-supported area. Hull thickness was 0.100 inch as I recall. The thing that made it a good rider was the fact that it had high sides and the helm was a good ways off the deck so I stood up most of the time and my knees took the licks....shock absorbers. Also it only had a little Chevy II 110 hp 4 banger and 30-35 was the WOT range, no PTT, just tilt which did nothing at speed so there wasn't any crashing through the waves in haste.