1971 Johnson 50hp.

[Paulywog0667]

Hello,
New to this forum, but am familair with fuctions of others and manners. I have been searching online, learning my new-previously owned motor. Mainly I went to hook up the gear shift cable and looked to read hydroelectric, lol. Started searching and found out someone down the line of who I baught the boat motor combo from didn't exactly have matching sheathed cable from the ignition area either. Thanks in part to this forum I got a lot of ideas to make a off, on, on toggle for the green and blue heading to the gear solynoid(s)... Very creative hours of online searching for what is basically a three stage-two hot phase rotary switch. DC relays can open current or close it depending on your choice. Two small momentary switch buttons on the throttle cable lever or one on, off, on toggle with one relay. Seems far less a complicated fix than guessing wiring on what seems fairly complicated of guessing DC motor reverse or if places purposely didn't leave infinate options through basic dc relays.

I'm going to have steady nuetral through the green wire to the lower assembly. A small momentary switch sending 12v to tell the relay to turn off the green and while holding the button, you're in forward. Release the button and back in nuetral from the relay turning back on green. Another small momentary held down to reverse. Or a toggle switch and relay. Not sure if I'll get fancy with a microcontroller and forcing nuetral if both are pushed. Hope it simplifies it for some and if anyone is interested in the how to? I'll probably put it on a bread board tomorrow. Like $15.00 in material depending, to not buy a waste of a $300.00+ control for a $500.00 boat, trailer and motor combo. Lol My phone was set to high quality photo. I'll see if some VGAs upload tomorrow.

Do need to find the lower assembly seals, gaskets and an impeller kit after messing with the gear shift. Fishing line was around the propeller and a little water with no lube in the lower. Lowered the lower to a yellow jacket nest, but without boots on the plugs and gas it turns with a small battery.

 

[jbuote]

Are you talking about making something to be place INSIDE your remote control box so moving the throttle lever does the shifting?
​Basically replacing the shift switch internally?

​If you're talking about shifting by physically pushing buttons by hand, then what you describe actually sounds more complicated...
​I actually came up with a pretty simple "Manual Shift Switch" solution here:
http://forums.iboats.com/forum/engi...c-shift-switch-solution-hope-it-helps-someone

​However,
If you're trying to replace the shift switch internally, (Non-Manual shifting) then I'd be quite interested to see what you come up with, and would look forward to reading that!!!!


​Not sure I understood what you were saying about the DC Motors though... There aren't any DC motors in the lower unit.
​Maybe you were making a comparison to something else???

 

[Paulywog0667]

I was referring to how some rocker switches have reverse on them, but the forward on them looks like the rocker switch is no different than a on, off, on switch.

DC-DC relays are really cheap. I have no choice, but to send voltage to two wires for nuetral and reverse. If I send voltage to the relay to shut or cut power to the green, by the push of a button I can go forward... Then let go of the button and back to nuetral. A toggle seems maybe a little safer than a momentary after debating it a day though. A relay seems easy and safe to me because I know them. I took off the lower assembly today and my had a roll of blue and green wire for me to play with. I'll look at your link.

 

[Paulywog0667]

Actually, the rotary switch in your thread is all I need, but I have a toggle switch and a relay. About the same price fix, but already have supplies.

 

[jbuote]

Ahh.. Ok..
​Well your approach sounds interesting!
​I hope you detail what you do and share it.. Would be great to see another approach to dealing with those dang shift switches!! LOL

​I look forward to seeing updates on it!! :thumb:

 

[Paulywog0667]

Relays are nice from often having the option to supply or take away power by actually giving it power. Depending what leg the equipment power supply output is on. They're a switch powered by power (or no power). Lol I might still get the one you showed. Now I'm redebating because the ones I saw where hideous. The one you showed doesn't look bad. I set my phone to the lowest MP and the forum says 6mp is still too big of photo files. I'll have to see if I have a VGA (email setting) camera laying around. At least for project photos.
Automotive relays of 12v to 12v on/off that are waterproof seem about the same as manual or automatic transmissions in cars as my outboard.

 

[Paulywog0667]

No Title

I found a resize app on Google Play. Basically my inspiration so far. Not sure if I want to knock 12v down to 5v to play with 12v, buy a relay I wouldn't need to knock down voltage for, or grab the rotary you showed. It's an old beast for a motor that really needs a vacuum test after what came out of the drain plug. Lol The grease is dry leading to the thing was in a garage long enough to know the ounce of water probably will mean a prop seal too. Hoping for a vacuum test to somehow say otherwise though.

Don't laugh at my $500.00 mess. Not in a hurry, but already have sand paper for the boat too.

 

[jbuote]

When you get gear oil, make SURE it is "Type C" and specifically calls out that it's made for electric shift..
​While I haven't seen it yet, I've read that some "Type C" isn't for Electric shift, but anything other than Type C for electric shift will not work...
​(Edit: Also marketed as Premium Blend... When I heard of this, I bought Type C specifically for electric shift.. )

​And no laughing over here.. I paid less (well, not much less, but less) than that for my boat, engine and trailer as a combo.. It didn't run at a ALL when I got it.. Had lots of work to do, but a cheap project for my first ever boat was enticing, and a seller just wanting to get rid of it helped..

 

[Paulywog0667]

The only thing I haven't figured out on the lower so far is, what is the set screw for next to the screen? Lol There was an allen (hex) wrench taped to the key and I found something it fits, but what is that supposed to be holding together? Is that like a prop lock? Hoping that's not why two hands are needed to turn the prop. Wouldn't be the worst news for a newbe if I loosened it to a one finger prop spin, but it doesn't look like gears would line up to it. That and a little corrosion by the solenoid cap is like, they better be ok. Lol That has a gasket though. I'd find a voltage match before over $200.00 for two solenoids. Aquarium stores at 300% markup don't even charge those prices.

 

[racerone]

If the prop does NOT turn easily with lower unit off the motor then the lower unit may be in bad , bad shape.------That set screw is used to keep the pinion bearing from moving !!---Not to be touched unless you are installing a new bearing.-----When this motor is NOT RUNNING it is in forward gear.----It shifts with 12 volts applied to green after one turn of the driveshaft.--Shifts to reverse with 12 volts applied to both wires after 2 turns of the driveshaft-----Fill it with any oil handy to do that test on the workbench !----Fill with proper oil if it shifts OK --Guessing on these simple lower units does not work.----I suggest you invest in a manual !

 

[Paulywog0667]

No Title

This is todays progress. Working my way down to look at what you call a pinion bearing and not certain of if at a force the next plate out or if I want to look more at, a new shaft seal. The electric shifting, I picked up wire for. To get to the front of the boat new. I'm working on taking the entire thing apart, cleaning, greasing, etc., before buying much of anything. Vintage motor clubs sell running outboards for 2-300$ by me. This one was picked up with the boat, unattached. Only so much I will dump into it before knowing it's worth it. I have had a little difficulty tracing Johnson back beyond Evinrude to get a copy of the manual. Not that I don't know the story behind Johnson/Evinrude, but forums and part stores generally have advertising sections. Not that I don't agree 100% if the motor lives a manual would be nice.

The set screw didn't look nice compared to online saying it should be all the way in flush and it's definately difficult to turn. Surprisingly the impeller doesn't look terrible to me.

 

[Paulywog0667]

No Title

Here's the control that was on the boat. Obviously doesn't seem a use for both levers with my motor so far, lol. Forgive me, but I am new at boat motors, but they don't seem much different than lawn mowers so far. Not sure if a manual would tell me how to decide the next piece coming off though.

 

[jbuote]

A rather generic "Overview" type manual can be found here:
http://boatinfo.no/lib/evinrude/manuals/1971-1989johnsonevinrude.html#/0

​I used the above for initial "Getting to know" my engine.. Didn't need very many specifics, so it was ok, but don't rely SOLELY on that manual..

​However, if you find you keep it and will do more work, (correct torque specs, timing, details etc.. ) get the actual factory manual specific to the year..
Ken Cook sells them. They have the reproduction rights on them.
https://www.outboardbooks.com/

and use the search at the top.. It's around 50 bucks shipped..
​finally ordered mine last week and should be here this week.
​I didn't get it sooner because I wasn't sure about the engine, but it's running and progress is made each day, so I made the investment on the manual to have the correct and specific info on the engine..

​And finally, iBoats does sell the Seloc manuals, but I figured specific year re-print was the way I wanted to go.,.

​For what it's worth...

 

[Paulywog0667]

No Title

A rather generic "Overview" type manual can be found here:
http://boatinfo.no/lib/evinrude/manuals/1971-1989johnsonevinrude.html#/0

​I used the above for initial "Getting to know" my engine.. Didn't need very many specifics, so it was ok, but don't rely SOLELY on that manual..

​However, if you find you keep it and will do more work, (correct torque specs, timing, details etc.. ) get the actual factory manual specific to the year..
Ken Cook sells them. They have the reproduction rights on them.
https://www.outboardbooks.com/

and use the search at the top.. It's around 50 bucks shipped..
​finally ordered mine last week and should be here this week.
​I didn't get it sooner because I wasn't sure about the engine, but it's running and progress is made each day, so I made the investment on the manual to have the correct and specific info on the engine..

​And finally, iBoats does sell the Seloc manuals, but I figured specific year re-print was the way I wanted to go.,.

​For what it's worth...

That's basically where I'm at. Online, I was able to find a pinion bearing fairly easily for a gear casing under $17.00. A $100.00 is ok to get the thing running right or I could spend $300.00 to one of the vintage guys and know the next $50.00 would be for a manual at worst. $50.00 of the hoping $100.00 right away is a little erm at the moment. Lol

Not sure the manual would explain the photo to me and why it doesn't want to slide right off though. I can't roll shafts on flat ground without them out of the housing. I see what looks like a seal spring, but am sort of looking for that validation of, should I be muscleing it or delicately removing seals to replace?

 

[racerone]

Below that plate is the pinion THRUST BEARING the set screw much lower down holds the bearing above the pinion in place.----In order to get the driveshaft out you have to go in from the bottom to get the nut off.

 

[Paulywog0667]

Below that plate is the pinion THRUST BEARING the set screw much lower down holds the bearing above the pinion in place.----In order to get the driveshaft out you have to go in from the bottom to get the nut off.

That makes it seem like I'm going after four bolts visible at the bottom. Does that seem about the agreement? With a socket extension they look easily accessable. You putting THRUST BEARING in all caps makes it seem like more expensive than a pinion bearing. I'm looking and comprehend what you're saying. I sometimes should probably word topics like, can anyone help take the thing apart so I can find out how much I need to spend? Lol

 

[Paulywog0667]

I was able to research some. I have the bolts out and am in search for a means to pull out the prop shaft that will hopefully come out with everything, but forward and the upper gear that moves forward and reverse bolted to the drive shaft. Currently there is some play in the prop shaft. Should I supply voltage to nuetral and/or reverse to see if it spins freely? The set screw makes some, but not a ton of sense now. If it holds a gear on the drive shaft. I'm debating if in a gear everything would spin more freely and reinsert the set screw? Thank you both for the help so far as applying a few videos to explanations has made a lot of sense. I'm hoping if the prop shaft comes off with the reverse gear, that a bunch of shattered gear doesn't follow.

 

[Paulywog0667]

I think the motor might be a scrapper. I got back from visiting family and the retaining clips to get the reverse gear out basically show through the assembly housing. The lower retaining clip was brittle and basically fell apart. The upper one is about half stuck in the housing. While applying heat I saw bubbles comming through the outside where the retaining clip is. Then an extra hole by the upper drain plug and one by the water intake screen. I would really need to sand the lower assembly, probably weld or some type of material that would hold up for maybes. I'd already be at fixing the housing, lower seal kit and retaining clips before even getting to new spark plugs and seeing if it would start. Does anyone know about how much a 1971-72 Johnson 50hp. would scrap for? I can get a 20-30hp. that's running for between $2-$300.00. Big difference in HP., but it's pushing a 17' boat. Seems I'm already at $100.00-$150.00 DIY repair before ordering a single part on a free motor. Lol

Or is there a $5.00 fix to stop a crack where the gear retaining clips are?