1994 Four Winns Horizon 215 5.8L EFI OMC

[platinumedge]

Yay!! Finally found the mystical number! I was laying down next to the engine in order to remove the #1 spark plug and noticed the placard underneath the "Cobra 5.8" fascia cover. It is: 58FACPMDA.

AllDodge, thank you very much for "encouraging" others to assist me in my sophomoric endeavor. Since I have a great deal of automotive experience (particularly with Fords) I'm not so concerned with finding/replacing engine components, as I am with understanding my outdrive and what needs to be replaced or looked at before the first engine start. Now that I have that Model No. I should be able to locate most parts that I may need.

southkogs & Lou C, now that I have that number, I'm looking for the "raw water pump (impeller)" that you mentioned. Would you mind telling me where I should search for that item, as well as any other parts that would most probably need replacing? I looked at BRP Parts Catalog and am able to find the "Water Pump," but that is the pump that bolts to the engine. Where can I go to find the raw water pump parts for the outdrive, please? Also, Lou C., in reading through the owners manual, I did find mention of "cone clutch shifting," "Spitfire EEM" and "OMC Cobra and Ford pioneered..." in the Four Winns literature for this particular model year.

Thanks again, guys - still lovin' this work! Plus, I'm losing weight because it's been almost 100 degrees the past few days; even when I get home in the evenings and begin working on the boat! (Living near our nation's capital.)

 

[HT32BSX115]

Howdy,

Welcome aboard!!

Hello to All,

I've been around boats for many decades, have much experience with automobile repairs, and purchased my first boat last week. I have been reading many of the pertinent posts on this website, over the past couple of weeks, and can obviously see that there is much to learn, AND much to be offered here!

I purchased a 1994 Four Winns Horizon 215. It has a 5.8L EFI engine, according to the stickers. It was sitting outside for 3-5 years, on a Four Winns trailer, but completely exposed to the elements (in Maryland). It's actually not in terrible condition: the bow cabin doesn't smell bad, most of the seat cushions/vinyl are in decent shape, the electrical accessories turn on when attached to a power source.

When I attached a battery to it, the accessories came to life, but when I turned the key there was nothing - no clicking, no action. The seller (a previous marina owner, who acquired the boat through some sort of default process) said he has never seen the boat in operation, but had his mechanic manually turn the crankshaft BOTH ways, but just a few degrees. His recommendations were to:

• Pull the plugs and put several squirts of 10W-30 into each cylinder, then manually turn the crankshaft at least two revolutions in each direction
• Replace the fuel
• Replace the water pump impeller

I think these are all sound recommendations. I would ask for further input from our experts??!!

A few questions:

• The stranded cable in the (manual) winch sheared. Can I just buy new cable? Or do you recommend replacing the entire winch? Where should I go to find the cable, or the winch?

• 
  Just get a new piece of cable. Any marine supplier will have it or you could get a newer winch using a heavy strap. With a boat that big, you'll likely be floating the boat onto the trailer.
  
  
  

  [*]How does one drain the fuel from this boat?

  Easiest way is to find the fuel gage sender (hole) remove the sender and use a siphon. If it's been sitting a long time, there may be other debris in there. With a long enough clear hose, and a suction pump, all you need is a couple of feet between the bottom of the boat and the top of a suitable fuel receptacle. Use 3/4" clear vinyl hose with a ball valve on the receptacle end so you can shut it off while switching tanks so you don't spill. DO THIS OUTSIDE.
  
  
  

  [*]Do you have recommendations as to which battery type/size? And where to purchase?

  Any marine starting battery that will fit in your battery box......Napa. Autozone, etc.
  
  
  

  [*]Where can I purchase a water pump impeller for this engine/outdrive? What specifications are needed to get the correct part?

  Here's your possible model numbers:
  584ACPMDA 1994
  584AGPMDA 1994
  58FACPMDA 1994
  58FACPMDM 1994
  58FAGPMDA 1994
  58FAGPMDM 1994
  58FBDPMDA 1994
  
  584APLJVB 1993
  584APRJVB 1993
  584DPEJVB 1993
  584DPPJVB 1993
  58FAPEJVB 1993
  58FAPLJVB 1993
  58FAPLJVN 1993
  58FAPPJVB 1993
  58FAPRJVB 1993
  58FAPRJVN 1993
  58FBPEJVB 1993
  
  And if you definitely have an SX, and it's EFI........it's probably one of the following
  
  58FACPMDA 1994
  58FACPMDM 1994
  58FAGPMDA 1994
  58FAGPMDM 1994
  
  And you can thank your lucky stars that you don't have
  
  58FBDPMDA 1994
  
  The downside is that you have a Ford 5.8L EFI engine. Some of the EFI parts are NLA or are prohibitively expensive and if there's a serious problem with it, you may have consider switching to a carburetor.
  
  
  
  
  
  

  [*]Is there some documentation that describes how the canvas/clear covers go together? There are two tops, 2 clear sides, 1 clear back (multiple pieces), and 2 canvas sides.

  You'll probably going to have to lay them out. BIG puzzle!!
  
  

  [*]There is no spare tire/wheel for the trailer. Where do you guys/gals recommend I go to acquire the correct spare? And necessary attachment hardware?

  Any tire dealer can get you what you need Also have them look carefully at the tires. Those tires may be so old as to need replacing anyway. They can make you a deal on 5 new tires and an extra wheel.... You also might want to look at the brakes. (There's a trailer section here on iBoats too!)
  
  
  

  [*]For starting testing: Should I connect the battery to the terminals (I have a feeling there may be some wiring issues)? Or directly to the starter solenoid? (I really just want to hear the engine run for a few seconds, right?)

  
  You're going to probably have to do some serious fuel system maintenance starting with draining the old fuel, cleaning the tank, checking/replacing the anti-siphon check valve, maybe replacing fuel line from the tank to the filter, replacing the filter etc .........
  
  
  

  [*]Lastly: I would honestly love to hear additional recommendations/comments/inputs/ideas/suggestions as to how to bring this beautiful craft "back to life" and get her running smoothly!

I hope to hear back from MANY of you, very soon. And I also hope that someday, I will be in a position to offer advice to newcomers that are in my current situation. (The "circle of life/boats", eh?)

Thanks so very much, in advance.

Cheers,

-- Jeff

Lot's of other sections on various "stuff" (this is the OMC Eng & Outdrive section )

It would be good to peruse the following section to get you started.

https://forums.iboats.com/forum/eng...69-must-have-technical-information-for-diyers

Cheers,

Rick

 

[southkogs]

Water pump will be HERE.

 

[Lou C]

sounds like you're on the road to figuring it out.
I suggest looking at the Bombardier Recreational Products catalog for the Marine engines, under sterndrives, by year and model number. This way you can get all the part #s for what you may need to replace. And next, since Volvo used the same engine package, right here on iboats you can look through the volvopentastore site, to try to figure out what the Volvo engine number is for the same package. Because, some parts that are NLA from Bombardier, may still be available from V/P. I found this to be the case with a few parts like cooling hoses and when I updated my engine from the one piece OMC exhaust and used the later style Volvo center riser exhaust. The 90* adapters I needed were NLA from Bombardier but V/P still sells em.

 

[Lou C]

http://shop2.evinrude.com/Index.aspx?s1=vaqg2uu3c82dkpiqsl0i70ki06&catalog_id=0&siteid=1

 

[Lou C]

ok in the link above, where it says Evinrude, go in and change it to stern drive. Then pick your year 1994, then put in the model number 58FACPMDA and you will see all the parts categories. These are the original equipment OMC parts and parts numbers. Then you can see what volvo parts may cross over to them, as well as aftermarket parts. This is one of the skills you need to keep these old orphans going!

 

[Lou C]

I think this may be the volvo cross over engine number notice it ends in PMDA like yours.....

http://www.volvopentastore.com/Mari...on_id.830315777--store_id.366--view_id.765175

 

[Lou C]

the only way to tell for sure, is to get the part #s from the BRP site and compare to the volvo numbers, some are the same. The volvo catalogs are much harder to navigate than the OMC ones for sure. Very confusing, with stuff not in logical places.

 

[Lou C]

http://www.marinepartsexpress.com/OMC_VP_list.htm
this may help too, here you can cross ref the OMC part # with the volvo part # and see if you can get the needed parts. Worst comes to worst you convert the dist to a Delco EST and get a carb manifold and install a Holley 4160.

 

[Horigan]

I looked at BRP Parts Catalog and am able to find the "Water Pump," but that is the pump that bolts to the engine. Where can I go to find the raw water pump parts for the outdrive, please?

That water pump, last on the menu, is the raw water pump. Item 3, 3854286, is the impeller. You usually get the seal #5 with the impeller.

 

[platinumedge]

First of all, many thanks to you gentlemen that have offered guidance. It is nice to have a place to turn to when the "going gets rough." Secondly, although this is probably insignificant with regard to our conversation here, I have recently realized that I purchased a Sundowner 215, not a Horizon.

I have traced the starting problem down to the starter solenoid (or possibly the starter, itself). ALL other components of the engine appear to be in very, very good shape. The oil is golden clear; none of the plugs were fouled; the engine turns smoothly (when turned manually via the bolt on the front pulley of the crankshaft).

MY BIG QUESTION: Where can I go to learn about how to remove the starter?? I can feel the two bolts that hold it in place, but they seem impossible to get to! The most obvious solution is to remove the starboard exhaust pipes, but this would seem to be a last resort. Do any of you knowledgeable gentlemen have any suggestions?

I'm not entirely opposed to taking the boat to a mechanic, but if it's just a matter of knowing how to remove/replace those two bolts, then I would prefer to finish the job myself.

Best regards, and happy Labor Day to each of you!

-- Jeff

 

[alldodge]

Getting to the starter is usually hard on most boats. In most cases it does come down to what needs to be removed to get at it. Only you can tell what the issues are and abilities of turning yourself into a pretzel

Before going to the starter, remove the cables and wires from it, and make real sure they are clean

 

[ron3033]

Maybe this might help you
http://www.crowleymarine.com/johnson-evinrude/943.cfm

 

[bruceb58]

Your engine is the "MD". When you look for Volvo parts, that is your model when looking for parts.

 

[platinumedge]

Well Gents, it's a euphoric day for me, as I was finally able to get the ol' girl spinning!! Yay! After many hours of work, I pulled the starter and found it to be completely rusted internally. I tried rebuilding it and cleaning it, but it was too far gone. I took it to my local AutoZone store for testing. When they asked for the vehicle type I explained that it was a marine application, for a 1994 Ford 5.8 liter. They just entered a Ford truck and, lo & behold, the starter number came up. It failed the test, due to solenoid issues, but they happened to have that starter in stock. We compared the two and they looked identical, so I bought it. I bolted it in and the beautiful V-8 started turning! Wow! Can't wait to hear her puuurrrrr. I had also stuck one of the plugs into a plug wire and grounded it; and got a spark out of it, so distributor and ignition coil are working.

I gotta tell you guys: last night, after many nights/hours of work, and no positive results, I seriously considered putting her up for sale and calling it "quits." I know I'm not "out of the woods" just yet, but BIG THANKS to everyone who has helped/bolstered me over the weeks.

My plan is to put the plugs back in, introduce some starter fluid into the intake and see if she will fire and run for a few seconds. I have never actually worked on a fuel-injected engine, so I'm not sure if that will work. Any recommendations?

Our weather has been terrible here in D.C. lately. However, I was able to assemble the camper top, and it has been doing an outstanding job of keeping the interior of the boat dry. I have water-proofed any critical components during this rebuild period.

Once I have the engine running (fingers crossed!), I plan on addressing the outdrive. It seems that most folks have claimed there is an "impeller," or some other component(s) of the cooling system within the outdrive. In my research, it seems that the engine-attached water pump does everything, i.e., it "sucks" raw water up through the outdrive, via coolant hoses and other connections - there is no impeller/actuator/device within the outdrive itself. Can anyone corroborate/dispute this, please?

Next I will be working on the power TILT system (this boat does NOT have a Trim system). I have noticed that the TILT system currently does nothing - I hear some motor operation when I push the switch, but the outdrive does not move. Can anyone tell me where the obvious places are to begin diagnosing? Is this a hydraulic function? Or purely electrical/mechanical?


The help that you guys have been offering has been AMAZING! I hope some of us will share a beverage on my little "yacht" some day. ;-)

 

[froggy1150]

The thing with non marine electrical motors in fuel areas....... BOOM!
they have spark arrestors/shielding to keep fuel from igniting. I would return it if you can if not and you have the old one swap all the electrical shielding, if that's possible or sell it to a buddy with a ford

 

[Scott Danforth]

get a marine starter. while the auto starter may look like the marine starter, its not. there is extra electrical shielding within a marine starter.

without a marine starter you run the risk of blowing up your boat.

NAPA carries marine parts in stock.

 

[alldodge]

introduce some starter fluid into the intake

I would not recommend doing this, it would be best to clean the fuel system (lines, rail, VST) and start with gas. The only reason to use starting fluid is just to hear it run for a second and prove the ignition system works. You already know there is spark, so need to get the fuel supply working

You have an engine mounted raw water pump and there is no impeller in the drive

The tilt is the same as trim, just a different name for the same thing. It has a motor which runs a hydraulic plump that moves cylinders. Check the fluid level

 

[platinumedge]

Much thanks for that overlooked concept (auto starter vs. marine starter). I was able to return it and ordered the comparable marine starter from iBoats; both starters were remanufactured and the prices were very similar.

AllDodge, I will follow your recommendation with regard to, "get{ting} the fuel supply working." One of my understandings is that there are very few, if any, replacement parts available for the 5.8 L Ford fuel injection system (for that year). So I really don't want to risk damaging that, if at all possible. That means carefully cleaning the fuel system, from the tank to the injectors.

• I know I need to get a new fuel/water separator.
• Are there other components of the fuel system that necessarily need to be replaced?
• I will check the anti-siphon valve(s), and replace as needed.
• The fuel lines themselves all need replacing. I assume that those can be purchased at an auto parts store??
• Is there a cleaner/booster/additive that I should add to the first few gallons of fuel that I burn?

The seller recommended getting some "muffs" for winterizing, and other out-of-water work. Do you guys have any experience/suggestions regarding them?

Hope no one is having to deal with Florence, but, if so, I wish you the best of luck!

Cheers,

-- Jeff

 

[Scott Danforth]

change fluids, drain water (4-5 drain plugs, big hose and power steering hose) = winterized

if adding antifreeze to the system makes you warm and fuzzy, you pour it in to the system at the thermostat housing with a funnel

muffs simply allow you to run the boat out of the water (on a hose)

some people will tell you to incorrectly simply suck up AF. that leads to a broken block come spring time.