Force 125 Problem! WOT only 3200 RPMS top speed 8mph

[legalfee]

Legalfee, why the pic of the regulator?

The screen in the pump is behind the inlet not the outlet.

If your squeezing the ball and no fuel leaks from the pump?
Then its sealed right.
But the impulse hose and the hole behind the diaphragm might be feeding fuel
into the cylinders??

The clear plastic hose: it shouldn't be a problem unless it's so soft it collapses when the motor runs.
I've seen them used on outboards and snowmobiles, weed eaters etc..

A new pump doesn't mean it's a good pump.
The diaphragm in the pump could be 30 years old??? and dry rotted??

Take it apart and see if there are any cracks or holes.
One little backfire, cough or stutter can blow a hole in it.

The connector has rubber in it. It rots after time and sucks air.

Because I suspect it's an ignition problem and not a fuel problem unless he replaced his fuel pump with a bad one.

 

[jvgilbert87]

Ok, so was at the boat again last night, new spark plugs were put in, carbs were adjusted boat started up on second try ran strong with no laboring. The bulb tightened up when squeezed and no fuel leaks from there at all, The motor never died on me and ran seemingly perfect again until open water and top speed was just stuck at 8mph. The guy disconnected the tach to see if there was a short? that did nothing.. he keeps thinking the motor is getting too much fuel however mentioned that if it was flooded the motor would die? so he's confused...

Also if there was a fuel pump issue would there be issues at lower rpms and speeds as well? It just feels like the motor has no power to it at all.

Jerryjerry do you still think the pump diaphragm could potentially be a problem even if the motor shows no signs of laboring or dying at any rpms or speed? I will take apart the pump and see if theres any cracks or holes. The clear plastic tube doesn't collapse at all. I will have the guy look at the impulse hose.

Legalfee, what would an ignition problem cause? Even with the aforementioned symptoms and the fact the motor starts right up and never dies, do you still think thats a possibility?

This whole time I was thinking the motor wasn't getting enough fuel for higher rpms but then when I saw that we burned 45+ gallons of fuel in only 20-25 miles that really confused me. Especially with a very light load.. Do you think we potentially burned that much fuel because we were on open water and never able to get on a plane? Could this somehow be an electric problem? Im at a total loss and willing to try anything at this point, its extremely frustrating and unfortunately I have zero experience with boats and motors.

Thanks everyone I really appreciate the help!

 

[Redbarron%%]

Look at the new plugs and see if they are excessively wet and perhaps too rich on one or more cylinders.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Burning excessive fuel: could be the diaphragm?
It's easy to check.6 screws.
It can run good at lower speeds and the faster it goes the more fuel it sends into cyl. killing the motor.

When it starts to die, does it miss or just die?

Check tank vent.

Check for broken, loose wires at the trigger and stator.
The trigger wires are very thin, and the ends are shrink wrapped.
The wire can break under the wrap and loose contact when the throttle is pushed forward.
This is when you need inline spark checkers and installed and go for a ride and see if your dropping
a cyl. the faster you go.

After you check the diaphragm.
Once you get the gas pumped up.
Remove the squeeze ball and run direct from the tank.
Remove the filter and any inline connectors.
I doubt your sucking air because of the excess fuel usage.

 

[legalfee]

Ok, so was at the boat again last night, new spark plugs were put in, carbs were adjusted boat started up on second try ran strong with no laboring. The bulb tightened up when squeezed and no fuel leaks from there at all, The motor never died on me and ran seemingly perfect again until open water and top speed was just stuck at 8mph. The guy disconnected the tach to see if there was a short? that did nothing.. he keeps thinking the motor is getting too much fuel however mentioned that if it was flooded the motor would die? so he's confused...

Also if there was a fuel pump issue would there be issues at lower rpms and speeds as well? It just feels like the motor has no power to it at all.

Jerryjerry do you still think the pump diaphragm could potentially be a problem even if the motor shows no signs of laboring or dying at any rpms or speed? I will take apart the pump and see if theres any cracks or holes. The clear plastic tube doesn't collapse at all. I will have the guy look at the impulse hose.

Legalfee, what would an ignition problem cause? Even with the aforementioned symptoms and the fact the motor starts right up and never dies, do you still think thats a possibility?

This whole time I was thinking the motor wasn't getting enough fuel for higher rpms but then when I saw that we burned 45+ gallons of fuel in only 20-25 miles that really confused me. Especially with a very light load.. Do you think we potentially burned that much fuel because we were on open water and never able to get on a plane? Could this somehow be an electric problem? Im at a total loss and willing to try anything at this point, its extremely frustrating and unfortunately I have zero experience with boats and motors.

Thanks everyone I really appreciate the help!

JV not saying it's your issue but since you've done everything on the fuel end I thought it could be ignition. I had a bad stator and when I replaced it the motor cranked up and ran but only went to half RPMs at WOT (3K). I read somewhere to disconnect the stator from the regulator / rectifier and retest. When I did I got 6K RPMs at WOT. The RR was bad. If I were you I would go through the trouble shooting steps for your motor at CDI Electronics .com

 

[foodfisher]

Even a new diaphragm can be damaged upon installation. A burr on a screw can create a tear. Is it smoking excessively? Clean the fuel recirculation system.

 

[legalfee]

Even a new diaphragm can be damaged upon installation. A burr on a screw can create a tear. Is it smoking excessively? Clean the fuel recirculation system.

True. That's why I replaced the whole pump. I didn't want to mess with diaphragms.

 

[jerryjerry05]

The diaphragm is probably the easiest thing to replace on the whole motor.

Since he replaced the whole pump?? you get the old one back?
Check that diaphragm too.

 

[catfishcarl99]

you can get a diaph and gasket for $10-$15 on ebay. takes 5 min to replace. 6 screws. very simple procedure.

 

[jvgilbert87]

Burning excessive fuel: could be the diaphragm?
It's easy to check.6 screws.
It can run good at lower speeds and the faster it goes the more fuel it sends into cyl. killing the motor.

When it starts to die, does it miss or just die?

Check tank vent.

Check for broken, loose wires at the trigger and stator.
The trigger wires are very thin, and the ends are shrink wrapped.
The wire can break under the wrap and loose contact when the throttle is pushed forward.
This is when you need inline spark checkers and installed and go for a ride and see if your dropping
a cyl. the faster you go.

After you check the diaphragm.
Once you get the gas pumped up.
Remove the squeeze ball and run direct from the tank.
Remove the filter and any inline connectors.
I doubt your sucking air because of the excess fuel usage.

Jerryjerry I dont think I explained my previous post correctly. The motor never dies at all, it will just stop at 3200 rpms (if the tach even works) and 8mph. It doesnt die it doesnt labor it doesnt seem to have anything wrong with it at all except for no power. Its like its a 10hp motor on the boat I guess would be the best way to describe it. Especially after some small adjustments the guy made on the carb and spark plug replacement the motor runs perfect just no power getting to it somehow. He is going to spend the day there tomorrow trying to figure it out. I will have him check everything you guys mentioned.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Yup, that does make a difference.
Does it bog or just stop revving up?
First thing I'd check is the fuel pressure/flow then the stator,trigger..
Remove the white filter/squeezie and run the hose direct from the tank.
It's possible the pickup in the tank could be clogged?
See below.

Is the linkage opening the carbs all the way?
Put it in F gear, have someone spin prop as you do, it can case damage
if you don't spin the prop.
Then check the lever that pushes the black roller on the bottom carb.
Pics help.

1. Disconnect kill wire AT THE PACK.
2. Check for broken or bare wires on the unit, stator and trigger.
3. Measure DVA voltage of the stator between the output wire sets. With everything connected, reading s should be approximately 180 volts or more. Resistance readings between the stator wire sets range from 680 - 800 ohms.

Check stator and trigger resistance, trigger wire sets read approximately 50 ohms between the wire sets (DVA-4V or more), stator reads 680-800 ohms (factory) and 200- 300 (CDI/RAPAIR) DVA 180V or more from blue to yellow.​

 

[foodfisher]

Timing? Check the plastic link at the top of the tower.

 

[jvgilbert87]

Foodfisher - timing was checked and seems perfectly fine..

Jerryjerry - the motor never boggs down it just doesnt go any faster or at any higher rpms.. We went through all the checks with wiring as you stated, he said he did everything you listed and it all checked back as normal.. he then took apart the fuel pump to check on the work the previous mechanic did and found a tear in the diaphragm like you had previously mentioned. He also found a loose magnet on the flywheel? He fixed that and picked up a new fuel pump rebuild kit and is going to put that together properly tomorrow... Ill let you guys know how that goes. We are all at the point where if this doesnt work I may need to just buy a new motor.. really sucks but nothing seems to be making sense. any other ideas? Thanks!

 

[Nordin]

I think you have found the issues.

A tear in the diaphragm will cause the cylinder that drives the pump to flood.
Loose magnet might make the ignition not to work properly depending on how large piece is loose.

 

[jerryjerry05]

The magnet on a 125 is a big strip glued inside the flywheel.
If it came loose the motor really shouldn't run.
If just a corner came loose then it should be an easy fix.

BUT!! if a corner came loose, the rest isn't far away from coming loose.
He should remove the magnet and clean the old glue residue from the magnet and
from the flywheel.
I've found using super glue works well as most other glues can add material and cause the magnet
to touch the stator as it turns.
Glues like Gorilla Glue swells up and causes problems.

YUP the diaphragm with a hole, that will probably be the problem.

 

[jvgilbert87]

Alright, so magnet was fixed, fuel pump and diaphragm was rebuilt, top speed now got to 13mph... the guy said hes totally baffled and has no idea what else could be the problem, only thing he suggested would be to change the prop to a 3 blade instead of 4...

Today I went there myself with new 3 blade prop 13x19.. put it in the water and got a top speed of 5.5 mph... the throttle barely being in gear to full open made zero difference to rpms speed or power.. there was literally about 6 -8 inches of play in the controls with no speed change, it feels like theres no cable connected at all...

. so i took it on open water opened the top of the motor cover and manually pulled the throttle at the motor and the boat went to 22mph right away (i couldnt pull on it any further although i think there may still be a little room, was just tough on the fingers). The throttle cable feels either stuck or too long or something from the center console.. 22mph in my opinion is still a little slow but it would certainly make me happy compared to what i have.. Maybe the 125 motor just cant push the boat any faster than that?

... any other thoughts? I spoke to the mechanic about what happened and he says hes coming tuesday to figure out the cable situation and why its not opening up at the motor. Thanks

 

[jerryjerry05]

A 125 on a 19 needs a 17/19p and you should get 30+ MPH/

If you made that much of a change with the linkage??
Then you might have the wrong shifter on the boat???
Pics of the shifter, and pics of the area where the cables connect?
Pics in N and then in full F
Remember to turn the prop if shifting when the motors off, you can damage the cable/shifter by forcing.

At 22mph, what did the rpm's get to?

Fill out the profile and add location?
You might be close to someone who can help??

 

[jvgilbert87]

I will get the pictures for you tomorrow evening and look at those. I was able to take a couple videos yesterday that might be useful for you to see. Unfortunately the file size is too big to attach here but you can download them at this link. Thanks

https://wetransfer.com/downloads/b28ca6d138e24acaaa09927221a801fc20181106002418/0d451d

 

[jerryjerry05]

That looks like the carbs aren't sync'd and the shifter isn't working right.
The arm you pushed should go almost to the tip as the black roller moves on it.

Top 4 posts in this forum have posts by some of the guys.
They cover timing to trim and tilt repair.
Read through them.
P

aying attention to a post by FrankA.​

https://forums.iboats.com/forum/eng...ler-outboards/616464-carb-and-timing-tutorial

Sent you a pm.
Include pics of the top of the tower shaft where it connects to the trigger.

 

[8ender]

Yeah you have a linkage issue there big time. That cam on the carb there should be where you pushed it when your throttle is wide open. I'm not intending to be harsh here but you need to find a better mechanic. Carb sync and position of the primaries at WOT is something a good mechanic will check right away.