Scarab 195 open or a Yamaha 190 FSH sport

[bob880]

Which one is a better buy? Thinking about getting a brand new 2020 boat I like the concept of these boats but don't know much about them.

 

[JimS123]

IMHO its an apples to oranges comparison. Although both are jets, the configurations are totally different.

First of all, you need to be totally onboard with a jet. (no pun intended). Personally, not my cup of tea. I don't like the performance and handling, but that's just me.

I have both a center console and an open boat, and both serve me well for my intended purposes. If I had to chose between the 2 as the only boat I could own it would be a hard choice.

If "performance" is the issue, look them up. Plenty of comparative data is available on the internet.

 

[Old Ironmaker]

Like asking Ford or Chevy. I would choose neither, boat not auto. They would never serve my boating needs.

 

[bob880]

I have done a bit of research on these boats, I have also watched all the videos on boattest.com looks like a lot of the slow speed handling issues have been worked on and are better now (relatively speaking) For me I do like the jet boats, I am looking for fun with the kids but I am also an avid bass fisherman so I like to get to places that have very skinny water. My question was a little vague, and I apologize for that. What, I meant to say is, between the two boats, which setup do you think is better? Does anyone own one? What are things you hate or love about these boats? I have to order the boat so I want to make sure I get all the add on that will make the boat better. I hope that makes sense.

 

[JimS123]

What, I meant to say is, between the two boats, which setup do you think is better? Does anyone own one? What are things you hate or love about these boats?

I own 2 boats, similar to your choices, though not the same brands.

The center console is an ideal fishing boat, but its not to the liking of the wife. A also don't think it would be "ideal" for water sports. I use mine exclusively for fishing.

The open boat is great for ALL the family, though the layout is not conducive to fishing, IMHO, unless i'm the only one doing the fishing.

Both of mine are outboards. As such, I can travel through any water as long as the the motor is tilted and the hull doesn't hit bottom. OTOH, I avoid skinny water in my jetski because it likes to suck up weeds and small stones, which screws up the impeller and wear wing.

Just my opinion.

 

[bob880]

Thanks Jim!

 

[briangcc]

The jet boats I've encountered through the years are loud obnoxious boats - not something a fisherman/woman wants when approaching a potential fishing ground.

As mentioned above, my understanding is that they do not like weeds which again if you're fishing you're going to encounter in shallow areas which may render your boat inoperable until you clear them.

Another item to consider....suck up a rock/weed and your day may be done on the water requiring a tow when you're jet powered. Prop may get dinged up or worse but provided you don't bend the shaft you can either limp along on the water or toss on a spare prop and continue your day.


Best advice - take each one for a spin with your family and see what suits them. It may be a center console or it may be a bow rider. Who knows...maybe you fall in love with an I/O or Outboard instead - the 4 strokes are whisper quiet....REALLY. I miss my Honda!!

 

[bob880]

Thanks briangcc I will look in to those as well. I know they are pretty loud for sure I guess when you are constantly at high RPM it is going to make a bit of noise. However, that being said I did read that they have greatly reduce the db on these....again this is something that I gleaned from articles and youtube videos on these boats. As for the skinny water I don't smash through water that is less than 3 ft deep....but on occasion there is a stump sticking up just below the water line and that is always a fun thump. I fish in California mainly on the delta, however there are many lakes for me to fish as well. My issue is my wife wants a family boat and I want to fish. I like this boat for the front deck and the on board head

 

[Old Ironmaker]

OK now I get it. The room a centre council gives you for fishing is ideal, a ton of leg room whereas the other set up is more for passengers comfort especially keeping them dry when running in choppy water. Nothing like being able to move 360 degrees fighting that personal best Bass. I chose the full wind shield style to keep my wife dry, after all it's her boat but for fishing it's side or centre council all day long. Buy raincoats for your crew.

 

[bob880]

Old Ironmaker,
This is a true statement for sure. Although, California Delta isn't "usually" choppy. That being said it is like 100 degrees he all the fricken time so maybe the water will be a blessing!

 

[QBhoy]

I have a couple of problems to highlight really. On a personal note...I wouldn’t go for either over a sterndrive or outboard. Really inefficient with their power and putting it down...but that’s not what you asked. So here are my thoughts.

The scarab brand in my opinion has been completely ruined by seadoo. Such a shame.
The scarab has seadoo running gear...and although better than they used to be...the thought of all that power coming from a tiny 1500cc with only 3 cylinders doesn’t sit well with me, as an engineer. They are extremely high revving to produce the power...and even with that power they aren’t that fast, compared to a conventional drive with the same power. Nor are they better on fuel than even a V8 producing the same power. No doubt the jet drive will be good fun...but long term reliable outlook doesn’t look so good from what we know about small engines producing big HP. These engines were designed to push a jet ski hull...even doing that, they have reliability issues already.

To the yamaha. Most of the above still stands...but it will almost certainly be more reliable and better built. The lesser of two evils for me at least.

All the best.

 

[bob880]

QBhoy,
This is the information that I need to make these informed decisions. That sucks about the engines, another reason I was leaning towards yamaha, The 190 FSH i was looking at has a "Roughly" a 180 hp motor that isn't super charged. I have read a lot of issues with the supercharged engines...but again I am just reading.

 

[QBhoy]

QBhoy,
This is the information that I need to make these informed decisions. That sucks about the engines, another reason I was leaning towards yamaha, The 190 FSH i was looking at has a "Roughly" a 180 hp motor that isn't super charged. I have read a lot of issues with the supercharged engines...but again I am just reading.

No problems. In the world of jet ski with these engines, the non supercharged engines are certainly more reliable. This is literally gospel on the matter. Of the supercharged engines from both seadoo and Yamaha. Most neutral minded folk will agree the Yamaha is the better engine. Seadoo have come a long way with reliability and their NA engine is decent now...but won’t compare to the Yamaha for sure. Just the 3 cylinder thing again. They are so stressed and high revving to produce the power they do...even in NA. Yamaha have taken lessons and some engines from tried and tested bike engines like the R1 etc. Seadoo have taken some engine lessons from snow mobile markets too, but with less success. No doubt someone will argue my point but a the neutral would agree.
Have a look at the boatest com reviews on YouTube. You’ll be maybe disappointed should you compare the gps test speeds and efficiency to a similar hull with a sterndrive or outboard with similar or even less power. The jet propulsion loses so much of its power before it gets a chance to produce forward thrust. Great at other things though...if you want to do tight spins and are taken by the main marketing scoops... like (safer for people in the water with no exposed propeller”
i kind of get that...but for me they have so many down sides that they will never be anything but a once in a while toy for throwing about. Especially if you are considering the centre console. To me, there are 100 or more other console boats that would easily do everything better....whilst being more reliable, last longer, cheaper to run, cheaper to service, easier to service and be much quicker. Just my thoughts haha.

 

[QBhoy]

Oh and that Yamaha NA engine, if it’s the one I think it is (the 1.8 HO 4 cylinder 180hp), is considered incredible in the jet skis. Really powerful and fairly
fuel efficient...in the world of jet skis at least. That engine even stole some of the supercharged loyal followers to switch to NA.

 

[bob880]

QBhoy That is the motor

 

[QBhoy]

QBhoy That is the motor

Great in a ski at least. In a boat, will be good enough I’m sure. Will it last as long as the conventional big displacement coupled to a stern drive. Almost certainly not, I’d think. If it not for any frequent use or serious use...should be fine. Just not for me. For the reasons above. If that’s the way you want to go, I totally understand and would never criticise...if it is. The. The Yamaha NA option would be the way to go, I’d say.

 

[JimS123]

We were Seadoo lovers for years, and owned a few. Reliability was always a question, even though we were anal about maintenance. When they went to the 4-Tec 4-stroke it was a completely different ballgame. We had 3 in the family and loved them all.

Then, we switched to a Yami 4-stroke and will never go back. The difference is outstanding. No comparison to a Seadoo. Not just performance and handling, but the serviceability is so much better.

We also had I/Os for 35 years. Then we switched to a Merc 4-stroke outboard. At the onset I DID have problems docking. The motor is so quiet I would think it stalled, and had to look down at the tach to find out it was still running. All kidding aside, our next boat will probably be an express cruiser, and even they are marketed now with multiple OBs.

The Yami jet is fine in a 'ski, and it certainly is more forgiving in weeds than the Seadoo, but I wouldn't own one in a "boat". Also, I'll never own another I/O, just for the maintenance alone.

 

[bob880]

I think you guys have changed my mind. My wife is going to hate me but I think I will just get a bass boat. Like the Nitro Z18 with the merc 150 pro xs. That boat does 60 Mph and gets 3 times the fuel efficiency. The Jet boat would have cost my family a fortune in fuel on any given weekend. Thanks again guys for the knowledge
-Bob

 

[wahlejim]

Sorry to jump in a little late on this one but to echo Q's statements, jet engines perform best on skis. The only way I would get a jet boat is if it had dual engines and it was not supercharged. Sea Doo and Yamaha both have pluses and minuses, but that, in my opinion, is related to the tremendous HP at high RPM in a small package. Even the 'bulletproof' Yamaha engines have valve issues, driveshaft issues, flywheel issues, etc. But it sounds like you have steered away from jet drives, good move, unless you want to get in the water and clear the intake every time you go through weeds at slow speeds. Reverse does not work to clear the grates on those things.

Now that you are onto outboards and keeping the family happy, don't forget to look at fishing pontoons. Shallow water masters with infinitely customizeable layouts and HP combos. It might be worth looking into.

 

[bob880]

Well, it is settled. I can't get the fish model here in California due to EPA restrictions...So I will be getting the bass boat instead. Thanks a lot California...