Should I reuse these old fuel water separators?

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ttownthomas

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I'm re-doing my fuel lines and am moving my fuel/water separators. Is there any reason not to re-use these old housings? Is all the magic done inside the housing or is it the filter itself that matters?
 

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GA_Boater

GA_Boater

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Re-use the housing with new filters. The filters do the work and housing is only a place for them.
 
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ttownthomas

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Well....The old filters are completely rusted on. I cant bring myself to re-use them in their condition. What is a quality fuel water filter brand?
 
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ttownthomas

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My fuel plumbing looked like this:

--------- = Hard Line
+++++ = fuel hose

Tank-Valve------------------separator-valve+++++++++++++++carter style pump----------------------Carburetor


What are the standards now as far as where the valves should be and how many?
 
alldodge

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Should not be a hard line between tank and filter, should be uscg type A1 rubber fuel line
 
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ttownthomas

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Bondo said:
Ayuh,..... Copper or other hard lines work harden with vibrations, 'n eventually crack,....
Click to expand...

So no hard lines should be used? Or Can it go:

Tank-antisiphon valve++++++++Separator-----------------Shutoff Valve+++++++++++Pump----------Carb

Assuming I can adequately tie down the had line portion.
 
alldodge

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Really don't understand a fuel shut off after the separator, unable to understand the purpose. If it was before the filter I would be sort of ok, because long ago they didn't use antisiphon valves. The valve would keep the take from siphoning out when filter was removed. The latest uscg regs is to have and antisiphon valve

In any case I would use Type A1 fuel line to the pump, then use a hard line from pump to carb as minimum
 
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ttownthomas

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AllDodge said:
Really don't understand a fuel shut off after the separator, unable to understand the purpose. If it was before the filter I would be sort of ok, because long ago they didn't use antisiphon valves. The valve would keep the take from siphoning out when filter was removed. The latest uscg regs is to have and antisiphon valve

In any case I would use Type A1 fuel line to the pump, then use a hard line from pump to carb as minimum
Click to expand...

I'm not sure either. Thats just the way it was done when I got it.
 
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ttownthomas

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I'm not trying to be obtuse here but I interpret the regulations differently that what is stated above. What am I missing?

FEDERAL LAW:

183.538 Metallic fuel line materials.

Each metallic fuel line connecting the fuel tank with the fuel inlet connection on the engine must:

(a) be made of seamless annealed copper, nickel copper, or copper nickel; and

(b) except for corrugated flexible fuel line, have a minimum wall thickness of 0.029 inches.

FEDERAL LAW:

183.562 Metallic fuel lines.

(a) Each metallic fuel line that is mounted to the boat structure must be connected to the engine by a flexible fuel line.


FEDERAL LAW:

183.568 Anti-siphon protection.

Each fuel line from the fuel tank to the fuel inlet connection on the carburetor must:
  1. (a) Be above the level of the tank top; or
  2. (b) Have an anti-siphon device or an electrically operated fuel stop valve:

    (1) At the tank withdrawal fitting; or

    (2) Installed so the line from the fuel tank is above the top of the tank; or
  3. (c) Provided that the fuel tank top is below the level of the carburetor inlet, be metallic fuel lines meeting the construction requirements of Sec. 183.538 or “USCG Type A1” hose, with one or two manual shutoff valves installed as follows:
    1. (1) Directly at the fuel tank connection arranged to be readily accessible for operation from outside the compartment, and
    2. (2) If the length of fuel line from the tank outlet to the engine inlet is greater than 12 feet, a manual shutoff valve shall be installed at the fuel inlet connection to the engine.
 
alldodge

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I think I know which questions you might be asking but would be better if they where just asked so we can cover them to the best of our non-expert options

Note these are all done with "IF" they are used, and not are used

Each metallic fuel line connecting the fuel tank with the fuel inlet connection on the engine must:
Click to expand...

Speaks of material which must be used if metalic is used.

Each metallic fuel line that is mounted to the boat structure must be connected to the engine by a flexible fuel line.
Click to expand...

Another if

Each fuel line from the fuel tank to the fuel inlet connection on the carburetor must:
Click to expand...

If below level of carb

CFR 183.558

(2) From the fuel tank to the fuel
inlet connection on the engine must be:
(i) ‘‘USCG Type A1’’; or
(ii) ‘‘USCG Type B1’’ if no more than
five ounces of fuel is discharged in 21⁄2
minutes when:
(A) The hose is severed at the point
where maximum drainage of fuel would
occur,
(B) The boat is in its static floating
position, and
(C) The fuel system is filled to the
capacity marked on the tank label
under § 183.514(b)(3).
(c) Each hose must be secured by:
(1) A swaged sleeve;
(2) A sleeve and threaded insert; or
(3) A hose clamp.

View attachment CFR-2010-title33-vol2-sec183-558.pdf

The only boats where I have seen a metal line connecting fuel tank to motor are old ones. The motor and boat will vibrate/flex differently. A hard line will have more possibilities of stress cracks. My sister has a 70's model 52 foot Jefferson and it has hard lines leading to the motor, but rubber from the metal to the motor. There is a fuel shut off on the hard line. the valve is great for filter changes

Just my opinions, suggest contacting USCG for assistance
 
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ttownthomas

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AllDodge said:
I think I know which questions you might be asking but would be better if they where just asked so we can cover them to the best of our non-expert options
Click to expand...

Here is the more specific question prefaced with some statements:

I have a 1972 Bertram I am restoring. I like hard lines. I think they look better and they tuck neatly and fasten positively. I assumed hard lines should be used everywhere but the very short connection from the boat to the engine and that the reason they were not used that often is people don't want to take the time to learn to flare copper tubing or the expense of the tools. Then this thread alerted me that my assumptions may not be correct and since I do trust that the USCG regs are only there to protect us from ourselves I re-read the fuel system regulations. In those regulations it seems (to me) that they specify that the only place A1 hose must be used is in the connection from boat to engine. In the regs I did not see any preference one way or another whether the rest of the system should use tube or hose. I already have the tubing and most of the fittings and I would prefer (all else being equal) to use the copper tube approach I had planned. I will, however, change my approach if safety or reliability is improved by using more (or all) hose and less (or no) tube.

My questions are: Am I missing something in the regulations that suggests that tubing is a poor approach from tank to near the engine and then transition to hose for the last few feet? Or is this hose preference an opinion (possibly a very educated one) from other experienced marine experts?
 
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alldodge

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First a foremost, the USCG regs are done in sections. Each section deals (in most cases) with only one area. The post I'm discussing is the fuel tank to motor. Your post was for 138.538 metallic line materials, 562 metallic fuel lines, 568 anti-siphon valve and mine was for fuel tanks 138.558 fuel line to motor, with a splash of tank capacity

Its a lot of mud

Look at it this way, IMO they are setup for the builder as:

Builder want's to use metallic lines going to X - so there is section aaa to see what is required
Builder wants to use flexible lines going to X - so there is a section bbb to see what is required

Etc, etc

They are not setup for, I want to change from X to Y
 
alldodge

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A another note: the regs that were in effect in the 70's are not the same as those that are in effect today
 
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ttownthomas

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My posts referring to the regulations were responses to the earlier posts from members suggesting that tube was inappropriate due to work hardening. (Which does make sense to me but also rubber hose deteriorates). Unless I missed something the current regs to not dissuade the use of tube.

So...Do the regulations dictate that A1 hose should be used from tank to mechanical fuel pump and only hard lines should be used from pump to carb?

or

Is it the experiences of experts that dictate the sentiment that A1 hose should be used from tank to mechanical fuel pump and only hard lines should be used from pump to carb?

or am I obnoxiously asking somebody to answer with a definitive when I should do my own homework someplace else?
 
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