oil, water and the outdrive

[iknowalttl]

1989 Rinker captiva 206 with 4.3 and alpha one gen one drive.... getting ready for the season I figured out I needed to replace the impeller... apparently I burned it out running the engine from a tub... I replaced it along with a new housing and new base.... also resolved some issues with a corroded steering cable... so I was getting everything back together and cleaned up to go out on the river for a second shake down run before scallop season opens next week and when I went to check the outdrive oil from the first shake down, first photo is what came out of the drain plug... seemed about the same consistency as when I put the oil in but not a good color coming out... when checking at the fill plug, nothing was visible... I was expecting to find oil coming out as if water was being pumped or pushed into the drive... like maybe a bad/improper seal on the base of the water pump I installed...

second and third photo is what I found dripping from I'm not sure where... brown thick and goopy... and I didn't think I had any bellow issues but I don't know where the goopy stuff is coming from if not from one of the bellows... it was about a week since I took it out for the first time after the water pump replacement... no goopy stuff was visible till after I fixed steering and had worked the steering back and forth countless times throughout the process...

 

[Rick Stephens]

Might be a good idea to pull the drive, drain and pressure test it. If leaking oil out, it is probably letting some water in. Any place with a seal can leak. Best way to find is by building yourself a pressure testing tool and find the leak.

https://forums.iboats.com/forum/eng...-outdrives/239516-drive-pressure-vacuum-check

 

[iknowalttl]

Might be a good idea to pull the drive, drain and pressure test it. If leaking oil out, it is probably letting some water in. Any place with a seal can leak. Best way to find is by building yourself a pressure testing tool and find the leak.

https://forums.iboats.com/forum/eng...-outdrives/239516-drive-pressure-vacuum-check

yep... looks like I have no choice but to pull the drive and go down that road... I just know there will be a list before I get to the end of things... Ugggg... I think maybe I will install a water pump on the MC drive I have off my Regal and put that on... I can pressure test it before installing and have everything good to go then just do a drive swap... once swapped I can see what the issue is and fix the drive that came off... I could hear a little difference in sound when turning and trimming so I suspect u-joints are on the list already... with the goop I see leaking probably add some bellows... gimble bearing may make the list if that goop is coming from where I think it is... I don't like list...

 

[Rick Stephens]

Motors the same size? Just wondering, as outdrive gear ratios are based on engine torque usually.

 

[iknowalttl]

Motors the same size? Just wondering, as outdrive gear ratios are based on engine torque usually.

not the same motor.... the outdrive I have is off my Regal which has the 5.0's... last year when I chewed up a prop on the Rinker, I used a prop from the Regal which was not really enough prop for the Rinker.. speed wasn't a major concern so I was just careful not to over rev...maybe it will be a better fit with the prop I have been using that came off that drive... if it has a different gear set, do you know if it would be a taller set that would work better together as a whole setup?

 

[iknowalttl]

looks like the 5.0's come in 2 flavors... 200 HP with a 1.65 ratio and a 230 HP with a 1.5 ratio... I believe I would have the 1.5 gear set in the drive I have since the 5.0's have the 4 barrel carbs which I think makes them the 230 HP flavor...

 

[Rick Stephens]

Taller gears. Probably have to prop downward to keep from lugging the lighter 4.3L.

 

[achris]

Don't like the look of that third photo. The only way oil can leak from that area is a ruptured bellows. And that oil looked like it has rust in it. When you replaced the water pump impeller, did you pull the whole drive, or just the lower unit? And if the water pump base had been hit with enough heat to melt the plastic, then the water pocket cover, which is a lot higher in the drive, will most definitely be melted. Did you check that for integrity?

Chris........

 

[iknowalttl]

Taller gears. Probably have to prop downward to keep from lugging the lighter 4.3L.

yep... I went and looked up specs and seen that... I guess I will see when I put it all together... I have to get a water pump in it and I seen where some dirt dobbers filled the oil passage on the upper so that is going to be fun to get cleaned out... since the prop I am currently using is under-proped on the 1.84 gears set, maybe the stars will align when it goes together... the current setup I had to be careful with... I generally like to run around the 3800 RPM range if I'm trying to get somewhere and just here and there run it on up a bit for a little fun... I have run it to 5K a couple times just for few seconds to listen and get an idea of the condition of things... I didn't have to push it to get 5K and I'm sure would easy rev past... unless I am mistaken, I should prop to 4800 WOT... sound correct to you?

Don't like the look of that third photo. The only way oil can leak from that area is a ruptured bellows. And that oil looked like it has rust in it. When you replaced the water pump impeller, did you pull the whole drive, or just the lower unit? And if the water pump base had been hit with enough heat to melt the plastic, then the water pocket cover, which is a lot higher in the drive, will most definitely be melted. Did you check that for integrity?

Chris........

kinda my thoughts too on the source of the leak... it also makes me think I will have a list before I get to the end of things... I really don't know the history on the boat very well... got it from the second owner about 2 years ago in need of risers and manifolds... was a fresh water boat most of its life but the second owner brought it to the gulf coast of florida a few years back... I mostly use it in fresh water but also go out in the gulf a good bit... a lot of the time I go out to the gulf from the river and get that fresh water rinse on return and other times I will drop it in the river soon (same or next day) after going out in the gulf... for the impeller I just pulled the lower unit... I installed a full kit including the base... looking at the old coming out, the impeller was fully intact but distorted and non functional... the top portion and sleeve looked like they may have been salvageable with some cleanup... with new parts in hand I didn't look at it real seriously... the base took a little heat right at the surface and you could tell it was just barely starting to melt the surface... was debating on trying to reuse it at first... the kit I had didn't have a base and I wanted to put it together but I went ahead and waited till I got a new base and put everything in new... looking up into the upper I inspected the cover where the pickup tube inserts and all seemed fine there...

 

[iknowalttl]

Uggg... water pump base giving me a time getting it to seat all the way down... just being aggravating getting past the O ring... anyone have any tips for when I get back to it... alpha one gen one MC is the flavor I'm working on... hoping for a UPS delivery of a transom seal kit today... wanted to get the water pump put in and lower back together with the upper yesterday evening and pressure test with hopes of having a good outdrive to swap out when I get the bellows... went ahead and ordered a full kit so I would have a gimble bearing and seal if needed...

 

[achris]

O ring at the top of the drive shaft? DO NOT put it on. Leave the groove empty... Because of the problems caused by that O ring, in later (and replacement) drive shafts, the O ring groove isn't even machined in...

Chris......

 

[iknowalttl]

O ring at the top of the drive shaft? DO NOT put it on. Leave the groove empty... Because of the problems caused by that O ring, in later (and replacement) drive shafts, the O ring groove isn't even machined in...

Chris......

no... the O ring on the water pump base to the housing... I was having a problem installing the water pump base... turns out the base was the wrong one... apparently there are two different bases for the alpha one gen ones... maybe the difference between the MC drives and MR drives... only difference being the size of the gear housing it seats in by maybe 1/16 of an inch... anyway, got r figured out... put it together and rigged up a tester and all is good at about 12-13 lbs.... with the goop leaking out I know I need new bellows to swap out the drives... I was supposed to get them Friday via UPS and a gimble bearing and seal if I needed it once I open it up but instead I got an email saying a delivery exception happened and new delivery is between Monday and Wednesday...

in case it helps anyone, here are a couple part numbers for the water pump base...

Alpha one Gen one MR drive number OC798464 required quicksilver # 46+44292A 3

Alpha One Gen One MC drive (with preload pin in top of shaft) number A453799 required quicksilver # 46-57234A 1 this base is approx 1/16 smaller diameter where it seats in to the gear housing...

 

[iknowalttl]

WooHoo... got my bellows kit today... built a little stand for the outdrive and pulled it... oily goop in the driveshaft bellows and a bad gimble bearing... Glad I got one along with the bellows... now contemplating on changing it out without the proper tools... I've done it twice before and everything worked out not using an alignment tool... I used a slide puller to get the old out and an old fire extinguisher which was the perfect size to bang it in with... both times the drive slid right in and all seemed to be fine...

 

[achris]

Watch my video on gimbal bearings before you try to put the new one in.

Chris....

 

[iknowalttl]

Watch my video on gimbal bearings before you try to put the new one in.

Chris....

just watched... good stuff... thought I would mention I know taking an old fire extinguisher and beating the bearing (ummm, installing the bearing) isn't exactly the proper way but I did make sure I was not putting the force on the bearing surfaces... the extinguisher was concaved in the center and the force was on the carrier... unfortunately I don't seem to have it around any longer and will either need to find something else or just go ahead and get the proper tool and make it easy now and future... I don't really see not ever doing a gimbal bearing again at some point... I have a stubborn screw on the limiter switch soaking over night... the head is starting to not hold the screw driver quite as well...still holds more pressure than I can turn by hand but I can see it starting to give a little when using pliers to turn the screw driver... the last time one gave me a problem I ended up with a drimel and cut a straight slot which gave me just enough holding power to get it worked loose... another time I ended up cutting the head off so I would have a stub left to work with and not a broken screw flush with surface... I could tell it was going to twist off so I figured I would go ahead and cut it... worked out and didn't have to drill and tap... speaking of limiter switches... is it hard on stuff not having a working limiter switch? I generally trim down till the tone of the pump changes then bump it up just a tad... then trim for best ride/performance once I'm going... same for trailering... trim up till the tone changes then a bump down... I don't think I have ever had proper working trim sender or limiter switches on any of my boats...

 

[Rick Stephens]

Need an alignment bar. Should check alignment every time you pull a drive and at least annually. Really cheap to find an alignment bar with a bearing driver.

 

[iknowalttl]

Need an alignment bar. Should check alignment every time you pull a drive and at least annually. Really cheap to find an alignment bar with a bearing driver.

I decided to go ahead and get the proper tools... ordered through Amazon and soonest delivery I could find was July 2 -8... guess I either find someone close I can borrow/rent tools or bring boat and use theirs/ them help if they rather or just do as I have done before and figure it out with what I have... I kinda have a knack with mechanicing on things and maybe that is why everything worked fine the other 2 times I've done it... or maybe just got lucky... I just know I am not going to sit here with all the parts needed and not do nothing till the tools I ordered arrive... just not gonna happen... maybe I'll post to see if anyone here is in the north Florida area closer to the gulf and would be able/willing to help...

 

[iknowalttl]

I see drilling and tapping in my future... got 3 out of 4 screws out for the limiter and trim switches... soaked the other over night with PB Blaster and still no luck... got maybe a full turn before the head gave way... still got a half inch or so of screw to grab and maybe work it out... was really trying to fineness it out but apparently it wants to be stubborn... phillips head was starting to break down so I cut a straight slot and got it to move about 3/4 of a turn before I could no longer hold enough pressure to keep the screw driver engaged... then busted away part of the limiter to get it off and a clear shot at the screw... clamped on some vise grips and started working it a little back and forth soaked thoroughly with PBB but instead of loosening up, it got tighter and started squeaking... and here is where I messed up... instead of letting the heat go out of it, I went ahead and pushed further... got another 1/4 turn or so and the head of the screw gave way and twisted off... maybe I'll still get lucky and get it to come... anybody have any secret techniques to get one of these out? I'm half tempted to just cut it off so it will be easy to center punch for drilling...

 

[achris]

... just cut it off so it will be easy to center punch for drilling...

This... ^^^

I have the same on mine. I checked about a year ago and the limit switch (port side) lower screw is frozen in. Been hitting it with penetrating oil and trying to work it, but it feels like it's going to break. I'll deal with it when it's time to do the bellows.

Chris.....

 

[iknowalttl]

well I finally have all the pieces and all the proper tools.... even splurged for a set of trim switches.... got those routed in and couldn't find the shaft seal that I remember getting... looked over and over where I knew for sure it was supposed to be and gave up frustrated after a couple hours checking the same 3 places countless times... cooked some ribs, had a beer or 2 and WaaLaa... it dawned on me to look in the car, maybe I never brought it in and put with the rest of the parts... sure enough there it was... so I got it installed and was setting up to drill the alignment tool for the bearing driver and here is a pic.... looks like I did good to be patient and get the proper tools... just hope the engine adjusters are in working order... I'm guessing that the alignment tool should be centered in the opening with it through the shaft seal and inserted in the engine coupler...currently the driver hits the lip where the gimbal bearing goes in on the bottom and to the port side....

also, just to confirm because I didn't get any instruction, to get the position of the hole that needs drilling for the bearing driver... I should insert the alignment tool fully then pull out close to 1/2 inch and position the driver face even with the lip where the gimbal bearing inserts and mark the hole... is this correct?