1971 50 hp hydroelectric drive won't go into neutral

[1boringdad]

Hi everyone, I'm sure nobody wants to see another thread on hydroelectric drive, and I'm sorry to say there is still at least 1 in existence..for now. I got mine as a gift about 5 years ago. It was given to me because I can usually fix things and it didn't work properly from day 1. When I got the boat it was stuck in forward. After checking voltage at shift wire connectors in engine compartment, and jumping necessary wires to confirm proper neutral and reverse operation... I disassembled controller and found the 3 way switch stuck in forward position. The switch had no spring action to spring back into the neutral position from forward so it just layed flat in the forward position. I found a way to hook up a spring inside the controller exterior to the switch that would fix the problem..put control back together, problem solved. My family was very excited to get out on the boat but first I had to take it out myself to test it out. My father in law and I took the boat out for a few hours and it worked flawlessly. Before taking the boat out with my family I thought I should test it out with muffs..unit wouldn't go into neutral.. didn't have time that summer to look at it..or the next few summers. I started a heating and cooling company and have been swamped. I figured that the spring must have let loose or whatever and so without even looking at it I decided to just wire it up to a switch to control the shifting. I didn't wanted the switch to be able to be bumped from forward to reverse, so I wired it up to 3 relays so that when switched up the boat could be in forward, middle position (off) neutral, down position for reverse..I tested my setup and it works great. When I went to wire it into the boat, I realized the spring I had installed was still in place, and the factory switch appeared to be working, Voltage checks confirmed that it was. The boat stays in reverse even with green wire powered. Remove power and it shifts to forward. I checked for continuity between green and blue wires thinking that maybe the wires were shorted together causing both to get 12v, nope. After some reading I figured replacing gear lube in lower unit would solve my problem..I searched everywhere and drove an hour last minute to get some type c lube..with my youngest son's help I changed the gear lube and my family and I were hopeful that our July 4 weekend would be a success...that wasn't the case. Now I am scratching my head trying to figure it out. I'm about to remove the lower unit, but figured I should try to ask what I should be looking for first. Normally I wouldn't own a boat, don't get enough time to use one, but now my family is counting on me and I won't let them down. My Aunt is still waiting for the pictures that I promised her of all of us out on the boat too..Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Larry

 

[racerone]

On a hose and on the trailer the prop may spin in neutral.------Has to to with oil drag on the bearings.----Use a stick to see if you can stop the prop.

 

[1boringdad]

Thanks for responding..I thought that could be a possibility so I submerged in water, that didn't work. Then the last thing I did was what you are saying..while cranking it by jumping the solenoid I used my foot to try to see if I could stop the prop but I couldn't

 

[racerone]

What happens if you put 12 volts directly to the green wire at the motor ?

 

[1boringdad]

I have the shift solenoids out now..I am having a hard time picturing how this setup works exactly..but I was wondering if there is anything that can be done to mimic the action of the solenoids using a piece of brazing rod or something as the shift rods to see if I have an issue with shift solenoids/rods possibly sticking or if I need to get into the section with the gears and prop shaft

 

[1boringdad]

It stays in reverse..which is why I thought the blue and green wires could have been shorted together, but they aren't.. usually starts turning in forward for a split second and then bangs into reverse..I removed spark plugs so I wasn't starting engine each time I tried, so it's just the starter cranking it, but not actually starting..it was doing the same thing when I was starting it tho

 

[1boringdad]

In the exploded view of the lower unit it shows tubes going into the sides of the solenoids toward the top, I don't have the tubes and I don't see a spot where they would go.. the exploded view also shows a valve housing with neutral lever and balls and reverse lever and balls. The levers are what I was wondering if they could be activated manually to see if I need to dig deeper into the prop shaft section or if I had a solenoid,shift rod issue

 

[F_R]

The solenoids, when energized, hold the levers down, which hold ball valves against seats, which blocks oil flow, causing the shift. Note that it is oil pressure that shifts it. The electric part only holds those two balls down.

I don't know what tubes you are talking about (without looking it up)> Maybe the insulating sleeves covering the wire connectors??

 

[racerone]

When the motor is NOT RUNNING it will be in forward gear.-----It shifts into neutral in less than ONE turn ( yes 1 turn ) of the flywheel when 12 volts is applied to green wire.------There is very little that goes wrong with these solenoids.----Not sure why you are digging into this.----What ohm readings did you get on the solenoids.-----Note----I can take one of these units apart and re-assemble without a glance at a manual !

 

[1boringdad]

 

[1boringdad]

Tubes are in this picture..so with oil drained, when I push down on neutral and reverse levers, they feel like they are already down as far as they can go, so I'm guessing that there isn't a spring under the ball valves to keep them unseated? Must just be the oil pressure that does this?

 

[1boringdad]

Also, the lower solenoid was slightly stuck when I went to remove it. When I cleaned everything up and reinstalled solenoids/shift rods, I noticed plunger wasn't flush with top of solenoid.. could these things cause this issue? I was going to add lube and retest it with plungers adjusted to see if it solved the problem, just not sure if it's worth a 16$ bottle of lube. Also there seems to be small holes and gaps on the top of both solenoids in the resin..I know they work and ohmed out ok before I took it apart, but should I try to repair them?

 

[1boringdad]

 

[1boringdad]

 

[racerone]

Not sure why you are chasing issues with solenoids.----I do not believe there is anything wrong with them !!-----The tubes are plastic for covering / insulating the wiring.----Carefully assemble the solenoids and look for the real problem.

 

[F_R]

Not sure why you are chasing issues with solenoids.----I do not believe there is anything wrong with them !!-----The tubes are plastic for covering / insulating the wiring.----Carefully assemble the solenoids and look for the real problem.

Agreed X2

 

[racerone]

Your location ?----I totally understand why you are working on this thing.----Most shops refuse to work on these SIMPLE lower units.------They are so easy to diagnose and repair in my opinion.-----If in Canada then ----evinrudeparts.ca-----might help you with parts.

 

[1boringdad]

I am in Dryden MI.. After cleaning up and reinstalling the solenoids I added oil to the lower unit and spinned the driveshaft with a drill while applying power to solenoid wires with jumper wires... forward, neutral, and reverse all worked fine. If not for a chunk of the o ring on the driveshaft missing, it would have been back on the boat.. going to get an o ring now.

 

[1boringdad]

I'll be the first to say that this is weird and I knew it would be, I searched the entire internet and couldn't find someone with the same problem. I have been fixing things for a living for 22 years and I don't like when something is"fixed" and I don't know what fixed it..it had to be one of 3 or 4 things..
1) the lower solenoid stuck out of position for it to activate pump properly? Seems unlikely probably was stuck in the correct location.
2) plungers adjusted improperly..too far out of solenoid to pull in properly? The lower solenoid was the only one that far out of adjustment when I reinstalled. Possible that it was adjusted flush with solenoid not seated properly?
3) oil inside solenoid coils causing higher resistance? When I ohmed out originally they were around 8 ohms. I figured 1 ohm was close enough, they are now 5.95..i blew out the holes in the solenoids with compressed air before reinstalling and also cleaned a few spots between solenoids and case.
4) because it was going to be short term, I added motorcycle transmission fluid to lower unit instead of type c for testing. Heavier lube than the type c but doesn't seem likely to be what fixed the problem.
These are the only things that have changed..any thoughts on what mad it work?

 

[racerone]

The oil has nothing to do with the electrical or resistance !!!!