1968 6 HP Evinrude need help

[andreipou]

Hi,
Trying to bring this motor back to use and could use some help.
Model 6802R.

Compression 140/138.
Checked points to 0.02 and then when it was running I checked with strobe light. It stays perfectly between two marks on both cyls.
Disassembled and cleaned carb. Opened low speed needle to 1&1/4 turn and high speed needle to 3/4 turn as per manual.
It had 18HP fuel pump, so I replaced it with new original just to exclude it from equation.
New spark plugs.

Starts right away cold and runs smooth and steady around START mark on tiller handle. Left it for 30 mins, no issues.

Problems begin when I turn the tiller handle:
1. If I go to FAST it does not speed up. Just stays the same. Only if I start to close high speed needle it speeds up. The max rpms is with completely closed HS needle.
2. If I turn from START to SLOW it does speed up ( instead of slowing down), but then stops .

Also, after it stops like that it is kind of hard to start again, but when starts, runs fine again.
Playing with speed needles did not do much, except above note for HS needle.

It is very simple basic motor and with all components in good condition it should not be very difficult to set.

What am I missing?
Any ideas?

Thanks.

 

[Xcakes0X]

I have a similar 6hp Evinrude here is what I would check. First with the outboard off I would make sure when you twist the handle the throttle linkage moves. Then make sure your using fresh, correctly mixed (50:1) gas because it sounds to me like that could be your issue. You need 3 components to get a small engine to run spark, compression, and fuel. It seems from your test that spark and compression are good. This leaves the fuel system left and to me it seems like a carb issue and I would take it back off and make sure its clean. I have heard that carbs can just go bad no matter what you clean, so it might just be time for a new carb but I wouldn't get a new one unless your certain. I would also make sure all fuel lines are good especially if your running ethanol fuel, including the fuel line running from the tank to the outboard and the fuel lines on the outboard.

 

[racerone]

Did it have the high speed fuel mixture kit installed ?-----It left the factory with a fixed high speed jet.----So does spark jump a gap of 1/4" or more on a test device , yes or no ?------Compression numbers seem high.-----Is the tip broken off the low speed needle ?-----A fairly common thing to have the tip stick in the orifice and block fuel flow.-------Were coils cracked ?-----Were coils replaced at one time ?----Did you check bottom of the coils ?----That little square pump is used on many motors , up to a 25 HP model.-

 

[andreipou]

I only use non-ethanol gas for my outboards and it is fresh.
I do have 1997 6HP Johnson (same motor really) that I restored years ago and it runs perfectly.
So, I am familiar with this motors.
I could try to swap carbs , but Johnson is a kicker on my pontoon now, so I do not want to mess with it in the peak of the boating season.
I was hoping that someone with more experience can get me some ideas.
As I said , this motor is simple like a "brick", not too many places to look at.

One more thing: One loop on the bracket that holds the tiller handle was broken and is held by peace of metal band. But the gears of the tiller engaging properly and cam follower is set by the service manual instructions to start opening carb throttle when mark on the cam is against it.

All part of the correct tune-up seem to be in place, but something does not work....

 

[racerone]

Experience ??----I have about 10 of these motors.----Rebuild them blind folded !!

 

[oldboat1]

Take a rainy day and rebuild the carb (need a carb kit). Best technique imo is to soak both halves in solvent, and open every orifice you can find (soft wire and carb spray.) Remove the aluminum cap on top, and clean underneath (idle passages). In doing so, check to see if there is the point of a needle stuck in the orifice (push it out from the inside).

(Oh, and replace the water pump impeller if due.)

 

[andreipou]

Did it have the high speed fuel mixture kit installed ?-----It left the factory with a fixed high speed jet.----So does spark jump a gap of 1/4" or more on a test device , yes or no ?------Compression numbers seem high.-----Is the tip broken off the low speed needle ?-----A fairly common thing to have the tip stick in the orifice and block fuel flow.-------Were coils cracked ?-----Were coils replaced at one time ?----Did you check bottom of the coils ?----That little square pump is used on many motors , up to a 25 HP model.-

1. Not sure about HS needle. Got it like that. 1967 Johnson has fixed HS jet.
It will cost t about $30 to convert it back to fixed, do you think it is worth it? Or I can just keep HS needle closed.

2. I did not use spark tester , just took sparks out and observed the sparks.
I just recalled that I had to replaced both coils on 1997 Johnson because they used formaldehyde resin back then and it was bad, no spark at all. But, when I took flywheel off it looked like all new under it. I do not know if it was all replaced or just because of little usage. Whole motor looked like little used.
Now , when you reminded me about the coils I did the test. Both cyls have good strong spark on 1/4'' gap. My guess coils were replaced and points looked new too.
3. Definitely checked both needles for damage or wear. All good. And it runs great in 900-1700 rpms range what probably would not happen with bad needles.
4. I put pump as per manual # 0388685.
It had much bigger one # 304089 that did not pump gas well when I cranked it.
5. You are right about compression. That was another motor. This guy has 104 on both cyls.

 

[andreipou]

Take a rainy day and rebuild the carb (need a carb kit). Best technique imo is to soak both halves in solvent, and open every orifice you can find (soft wire and carb spray.) Remove the aluminum cap on top, and clean underneath (idle passages). In doing so, check to see if there is the point of a needle stuck in the orifice (push it out from the inside).

(Oh, and replace the water pump impeller if due.)

I know what you are talking about. I cleaned carbs on newer motors that were packed with "kaka". But this carb looked clean and fresh when I opened it. I did carb cleaned , blow air , all the things ,but just as the routine. There was nothing visible to clean.
As I said - very clean , well taken care motor.
If nothing helps, I will have to do what you say....

It pumps water well.

 

[andreipou]

Experience ??----I have about 10 of these motors.----Rebuild them blind folded !!

Just to clarify in case it did not sound well:
I meant more experience than me. I am very amateur motor guy.

 

[Crosbyman]

did you.. yes or no... Sorry to ask ... clean all orifices with a small wire .. carb cleaner blast all orifices then air blast to dry everything.

check the side channel to the top drip chamber ... very small orifice to inspect and clean

gasket type must be for the carb ! with the extra side hole to allow fuel to feed up the top idle cct.

float is level and carb passes the blow test ?

 

[andreipou]

did you.. yes or no... Sorry to ask ... clean all orifices with a small wire .. carb cleaner blast all orifices then air blast to dry everything.

check the side channel to the top drip chamber ... very small orifice to inspect and clean

gasket type must be for the carb ! with the extra side hole to allow fuel to feed up the top idle cct.

float is level and carb passes the blow test ?

I got one very neat tool from old welder to clean orifices from microscopic size to 1mm. Always use it. It is great.
I have learned about this small side hole you are talking about on one of my od OMC motors the hard way. It was driving me crazy until I figured it. Now I always check for one.
Blow test - yes.

The thing is : it idles great in very wide range of rpms for as long as I can wait.
It is going low or high is what kills it.
High is also not a problem when I close HS needle completely.

And when it dies it self it is hard to restart.
When I kill it, it is OK to restart.

Manual says to back out LS needle 1&3/4 turns and HS needle 3/4 turns.
I found another manual that give different numbers.
Can anyone confirm?

 

[Crosbyman]

see book page

 

[andreipou]

Tnx.

 

[andreipou]

Found this old thread.

6HP Fisherman...need help with cam follower adjustment and tiller/throttle setting

Hi everyone! I need some advice on a 6HP Fisherman outboard I was given. First a little background. Motor was sitting several years, and was given to me. It has no serial # plate, or id number on engine. It is definitely mid sixties-early seventies. I pulled the flywheel, cleaned and gapped...

forums.iboats.com

Same motor, practically same issues.
My Cam follower has the same dent.
Ordered carb rebuild kit, so will post how it worked.

 

[andreipou]

Disassembled carb, removed aluminum plugs, soaked in Pine Sol for a day, washed with Carb cleaner, blew air.
All new carb rebuild kit.
New fuel lines.
Filled dent on cam follower with JBWeld.
Same problems.
Thinking of ordering new coils and condensers just for the sake of trying...

 

[Crosbyman]

High is also not a problem when I close HS needle completely.

seems odd....with no fuel bypassing the needle tip at the bottom of the HS nozzle the engine should stop...do you have the fat washer installed at the bottom.


test your coils and don't throwing parts at it...unless maybe condensers which are hard to test properly without more than a VOM
clean and set points 0.020 on the high spot of the cam lobe.

Testing an Outboard Coil with a Multimeter using an ignition coil from the Johnson H or T

Multimeter testing of Johnson outboard coils

www.pochefamily.org

 

[andreipou]

"do you have the fat washer installed at the bottom."
Originally it was some fiber thread soaked in black stuff around HS needle.
I cleaned it all , and put 2 small cork washers from rebuild kit exactly how it is on parts diagram. These washers get compressed by packing nut.

I was not going to throw coils , they look new, but looks can be decieving.

Since carb rebuild did not work I can only think of ignition issue because there is nothing else in this motor.
The point are exactly .02 and strobe light shows mark exactly in the middle of two timing marks, very steady no fluctuations on both cyls.

One thing I am thinking that it is a little harder to start warm : condensor starting going bad?

What drives me a little crazy I was able to figure more complicating motors, but this very simple little guy does not give up.

I will not be surprised that it will be something very simple and "obvious" at the end...

One more thing:
In this article he says that he has one hole open on the carb.

Johnson

Quote: " One thing if you look at the top of this carburetor, the 1/8" hole at mid-section topish is not plugged with a lead shot like all the rest. "

I have this hole packed with lead shot.
?????

 

[racerone]

Fuel in a carburetor bowl must have atmospheric pressure on it.-----So there must be a vent to do that.

 

[Crosbyman]

OK lets clarify something again ....if or do you have a both LS and HS needles....
because looking at your 68 6hp carb you have no HS needle only the top pointy one which controls the LS idle circuite so you can not be
closing a HS needle completely.

the HS circuit is controlled by a fix size orifice (jet) behind the bottom nut
did you clean it out properly with a fine piece of wire or monofilament to push out any solid crud ?

the central post is a high speed nozzle and it is sealed with a fat donut like washer. do you have it installed ? Diagram seems to place that fat donut at the top of the HS nozzle on this 6hp

you description of packing washers made of cork is related to the top LS needle .. nothing to do wit the HS part of the carb ! on the older carbs it sits at the bottom see diagram above

if you do have a bottom HS needle did someone change the carb ?? even Cd'S have fix HS jets in 1965 so what is the model number of your motor ??

 

[andreipou]

According to article above, fixed HS jet started in 1971, so mine is legit (or it looks legit) HS needle. It is the same as LS needle ,but does not have long thin end like LS. It has short conic end . Now I am wondering if someone just grinded it after breaking.
I wish it was an image of good\correct HS needle for this motor.

This carb did not have any traces of gunk anywhere , but I soaked, sprayed and cleaned with special orifices cleaning tool every hole I could find.

Yes, new fat washer goes on the HS jet pole all way to the bottom of pole.

The packing nut of HS needle is identical to LS one and on the diagrams with HS needle washers (2) look the same and have the same part #.

I attached some pics.