power pack ?

[Kesh]

Can somebody explain me what a powerpack is ? My mechanics says the powerpack is failing, causing erratic loss of sparks in some cylinders.....We have an Evinrude 225hp (1994) outboard. The fact is that the other day my partner experienced a loss of power and rpm couldnt go above 3000. Now the engine is working good, but I am afraid it will fail again when offshore. The mechanic says that I can use the boat if I want, that it will bring me home even if the problem reappears, because the rest of the cylinders will work. Of course, a reduction in power will be evident.<br /><br />What do you think? Also, the mechanic says the powerpack is "very expensive".<br /><br />Sorry, but I dont have the manual for my engine, because the damned idiot president of Venezuela imposed a foreign exchange control, and there are no dollars available for imports since 2 months ago. I will be grateful if somebody can explain me the whole ignition system. I understand 4 strokes engines very well, so you can use technical language. The problem is that I am not familiar with outboards.<br /><br />Thanks in advance.

 

[JB]

Re: power pack ?

Howdy, Kesh.<br /><br />The powerpack is an encapsulated electronic ignition module.<br /><br />There are 2 of them on your V6.<br /><br />From your description I agree with your wrench, including the "expensive" part.<br /><br />Good luck.

 

[Dhadley]

Re: power pack ?

I dont mean to step on toes here but there is only one pack on a 1994 looper. Actually from 1988 on. <br /><br />Are you sure its not going into SLOW (speed limit overheat warning)? If it is you can shut it down and restart and it should reset itself and go to full rpm until it overheats again. The best scenario would be to run the tests and see if it is going into slow and why.<br /><br />Good luck!

 

[Kesh]

Re: power pack ?

how can I tell the engine temperature ??? or, is there any sensor that I should test ?

 

[JB]

Re: power pack ?

Ooops! Sorry about that, Kesh. I assumed that your wrench meant a failure would only affect half of your cylinders. I overlooked the year.<br /><br />Thanks, DHadley.

 

[Dhadley]

Re: power pack ?

There are several things to test here. Without any hope of a manual you must rely on your tech. We must assume also that your warning buzzer doesnt work. When you fist turn on your ignition switch it should beep momentarily. Thats the "selt test" mode. <br /><br />When the motor looses rpm, shut it down and wait a few seconds. Restsrt it, verify water pressure and if you can get your rpms back then it was probably in the slow mode. Causes - possible faulty sensor, actual overheat due to several things or bad ignition component. At this point I would say its up to the mechanic.<br /><br />Good luck!

 

[ob]

Re: power pack ?

Just one thing I want to add in addition to the good help you are already recieving is that ,you can obtain a 163 degree thermo/melt stick from your dealer to perform a mark or touch check to your heads to see if engine is overheating.I keep one aboard with me.

 

[Kesh]

Re: power pack ?

Well, I was not onboard when the rpm loss happened. Also, I was not onboard when the mechanic tested the engine. My partner was, but he is not too familiar to engines. I will try to test the boat this weekend.<br /><br />Dhadley, yes there is a short beep everytime you turn the key to start the engine, so I guess the alarm system is working. Let me test the boat as you say. First thing I do every time I start the engine is to see the water jet, in order to verify that the cooling system is working. Until now it has worked all the time, but I will check again. If I get low rpms during my test drive I will shutdown and wait some minutes and then restart to check if it was in the slow mode.<br /><br />Another question, is there any "engine temperature" probe and gauge that I can buy and add to my boat ?

 

[clanton]

Re: power pack ?

What everone else says, plus check the shift switch. Switch located close to shift cable connector on engine, disconnect switch for test. The switch kills 3 cylinders when comming out of gear. Switch may be shorted or sticking.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: power pack ?

Kesh..... In addition to ther excellent advice above, I'd add the following and hope that I'm not stepping on anyones toes as I have no intentions of offending anyone.<br /><br />Not to say it couldn't happen, but I've yet to see a powerpack on a "Magneto Capacitance Discharge" ignition system (your engine's ignition) that would fail in an intermitent mode. It would either be good..... or bad.<br /><br />Since you're experiencing intermitent ignition (as I understand your post) pertaining to a good strong spark, then when the problem occurs, weak spark, that would lead me to the beginning of the ignition system. That would be the stator that's located under the flywheel.<br /><br />Look under the flywheel... the shinny coils that you see there pertain to the charging system (alternator). The two black coils that you'll see towards the rear of the stator supply approximately 300 AC volts to the powerpack and is required to energize the pack.<br /><br />The stator runs very hot, and in time the extreme heat causes those two large black coils to melt down. When this happens, the AC voltage to the powerpack drops and the pack fails to function properly (weak or non existent spark).<br /><br />Look closely at the black coils on that stator. You may actually be able to see that sticky substance dripping down on the block area from those black coils. If not, I'd suggest that you remove the flywheel to examine the stator closely.<br /><br />This may not be your problem but it's worth looking into.<br /><br />At first, this failing stator problem will create normal spark when cold, then weak spark when hot, then as it cool off, the cycle repeats. Eventually the stator fails permently and the ignition is non existent even when cold.... usually about 20 miles offshore.<br /><br />Note that the engines with the 35 amp charging system (yours included) are prone to this melting down of the black coils of the stator.... meaning it is an engineering flaw (in my opinion) and will, in time, occur again. Sorry to supply that news.

 

[Kesh]

Re: power pack ?

Thank you Joe for the detailed info,<br />I will also check the stator under the flywheel.

 

[Kesh]

Re: power pack ?

Well, finally I had the time to go to the marina. I visually inspected the black coils, and yes, there is melted material (insulation I guess) dripping from the black coils, the two at the rear and the one at the front. I investigated the price of the new stator, and it is very expensive, around 400-500 USD equivalent. I told my mechanic that I was concerned not only about the powerpack, but also about the stator. He offered me a used pair of spares (stator+powerpack). He says they are almost new, coming from 2 engines he negotiated and that were used only a few times. He says the spares are almost like new. The price he is offering maybe half of the price at the store. What do you say ????

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: power pack ?

Kesh..... I would hold off purchasing the powerpack right now, but I would suggest replacing the stator. From what you've stated in your last post, your present stator is on its way out. I would suspect that once the powerpack receives its full voltage from the stator, it will function normally. At any rate, it's worth the gamble to wait on the powerpack purchase.<br /><br />Normally the price on used parts amount to half of half ($400 = $200 = $100) however there are exceptions, and if the stator appears to be almost new, and you can get it for half price (with a warranty of some kind), that doesn't sound bad at all. Wish you luck. Let us know if the stator cures your problem.

 

[Kesh]

Re: power pack ?

Ok, we will try the stator first. It will be installed during the week. However, I will go tomorrow to the marina for a drive test, to see if the ignition failure appears again... Last time my partner went out with the boat he says the engine performed completely normal...<br /><br />My partner told me that the mechanic tested the shift switch and it is ok (in fact, he told me that the mechanic bypassed the switch during the test).<br /><br />I still remain with the question: is there any "engine temperature" probe and gauge that I can buy and add to my boat ?

 

[clanton]

Re: power pack ?

I would suggest a Rapair stator and power pack. No problems with warranty. You can also check the complete ignition system with a meter, with engine running full throttle and locate the defective part. I agree with Joe about the stator, and when you have the flywheel off to change the stator, check the magnets in the flywheel and the upper crankshaft bearing housing bolts.<br /><br />Joe you have a 336234 hose?<br /><br />Dealer or Teleflex should have a temp gauge kit.

 

[Kesh]

Re: power pack ?

How do I check the magnets ??? visual inspection ?<br /><br />and how do I check the bolts ? just try to tighten ??

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: power pack ?

Clanton.... Sorry, according to my inventory list, I don't have that item. What hose is it anyway?<br />-------<br /><br />Kesh..... Visually inspect the magnets to see if any of them are broken, or had the epoxy fail which would allow them to move up against each other. The bolts, yes, simply check to see if they are tight. The flywheel nut is to be torqued to 145 foot pounds.

 

[Kesh]

Re: power pack ?

I went to the marina today to test drive the boat. Here are the results:<br /><br />At idle, the engine sound was a bit "cough, cough", but just a bit. Maybe I am mentally waiting for strange sounds, but I heard the engine a bit "not smooth". When tested out of the marina, I went to 35 mph without any problem. Engine running at 3500 rpm (I always run at around 3500-3700, as I dont like too much velocity, just 20-25-30 mph depending on the sea conditions), it was on plane, cruising normally. I tested acceleration response, and it seemed ok to me. I did many turns and tested again. No noticeable failure. During the test, I noticed that my fishfinder went off. Strange thing. I put it in diagnostic mode, and noticed that voltage was above 17 volts !!! Thats why it turned off, because it has a over-voltage protection. I came back to the marina, and decided to test the voltage behavior. Here is a list:<br /><br />Iddle (500 RPM) ---> 14.3 - 16.5 volts<br />1500 RPM --->16.3 - 16.5 volts<br />2500 RPM --->17.2 - 17.4 volts<br />3000 RPM ---> 17.5 - 17.6 volts<br /><br />I tested with gear in neutral, at the marina. I tested with one battery, and dual battery. Only minor differences in readings.<br /><br />Do I have also a regulator problem (if there is a voltage regulator in my engine...) ???<br /><br />I think I will replace the stator first, as you suggested. But again, the problem didnt appear today...so I dont feel comfortable knowing that the engine can fail at any moment unexpectedly.<br /><br />Can this be related to the ignition problems (power pack) ?

 

[Kesh]

Re: power pack ?

Hey guys,<br />I'm pulling this topic to the top so you can notice my previous post above.

 

[CARLOS]

Re: power pack ?

HI KESH,<br /><br />I´M CARLOS, ALSO FROM PTO LA CRUZ, VENEZUELA.<br />I HAD THE SAME PROBLEM WITH MY 275 MARINER.<br />AS PREVIOUS POST FROM JB, TWO POWER PACKS, ONE PER 3 CYLINDERS.<br />WHEN ONE POWER PACK (CDI) FAIL, THERE IS A LOSS OF POWER BECAUSE 3 CYLINDERS ARE NOT WORKING.<br />WHEN TESTED, NO SPARK IN 3 CYLINDERS.<br />CHECK THE POWER COILS WHICH GIVE THE VOLT TO THE CDI (UNDER THE FLYWHEEL).<br />MUST TO BE UNDER SPECIFICATIONS.<br />IF THE RESISTANCE IS UNDER SPECS, REPLACE THE CDI INVOLVED TO THE CYLINDERS ARE NOT WORKING.<br />THAT WAS MY CASE. A DEFECTIVE POWER PACK.<br />IF YOU HAVE A CHANCE, YOU CAN FIND USED PART ONLY FOR TEST PURPOSE.<br />BY OTHER HAND, IT IS ABNORMAL YOU MENTIONED OVER 17 VOLT OUTPUT OF ALTERNATOR. THE VOLT MUST TO BE OVER 12.5 AND LESS THAN 14.5 VOLT AT 2000RPM.(ACCESORIES OFF)<br />CHECK FOR THE BATTERY TERMINAL CONNECTIONS. (POOR CONNECTION TO THE BATTERY MAY CAUSE OVER VOLT FROM REGULATOR)<br />OK, KESH. GOOD LOOK. ANY HELP KEEP IN CONTACT.<br /><br />CARLOS SCHEMEL<br />BANDIT<br />CASAS BOTE SECTOR C