Suggested...or Law?

[fishndvm]

I've got a J12 Carolina skiff with a 15 hp engine on it. It cannot get out of it's own way. I thought that perhaps my engine was to blame, so I borrowed a buddy's 15 hp engine, and it still cannot get out of it's own way. The sticker rates it for a 15hp max for tiller operation, and 20 hp max for remote. I was leaning towards a nice 25 that I have access to. Are those sticker recommendations a mere manufacturer rec or are they the maximum allowed by law. Forget about the insurance deal. I know all about it. I would just like to know if it's illegal to exceed those recommendations. Thanks

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: Suggested...or Law?

IMO this question is the second most arguable topic (oil being #1!). If your asking from purely a legal point, contact the the boat manufacturer & then the coast guard. If your asking about whether the boat will disintegrate with a larger motor...............?<br /><br />Aldo

 

[walleyehed]

Re: Suggested...or Law?

Take the insurance out of the question, and no, there isn't any law saying you can't put more HP on it than recommended. BUT, if water patrol or other law enforcement agency determines you are out of control, dangerous, and/or a hazard to anyone else, they CAN escort you to the nearest shore and demand you be towed back to ramp. Usually, in the cases I know of, they simply tell ya to cool it. Of course they have the right to escort ANY vessel to shore, but I don't see 25HP on a max of 20 even being an issue on the law-side.<br />EDIT: By US CoastGaurd regs, they have NO authority over how your boat is powered, and says so right on the USCG site.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Suggested...or Law?

Some states, Wisconsin is one of them, have adopted the rating plate hp as a legal limit. Right up front in the state regs it states " that to exceed the rating...... is evidence of willful negligence."<br /><br />Check your state regs.

 

[fishndvm]

Re: Suggested...or Law?

Thank you for your help. I'll check with the state.

 

[cobra 3.0]

Re: Suggested...or Law?

http://www.sandycovemarine.com/carolinajseries/ <br /><br />I just checked out your boat on the net. It's kind of odd that a 230 pound boat won't plain with a 15! Is the motor trimmed correctly? You may have to change the prop to a lower pitch, but there is no way of knowing unless you have a tach. Some folks get a tiny tach for this application.<br /><br /> http://www.tinytach.com/tinytach/gasoline.php

 

[BillP]

Re: Suggested...or Law?

Best check your state laws whether it's legal or not. The USCG may give a civil ticket for negligence or gross negligence when exceeding capacity plates.<br /><br />Here's cut and pastes from a few states that say it is illegal to exceed mfgs capacity plates. I imagine (but didn't check)there are many more that follow same suit...<br /><br />Washington: <br /><br />13. GENERAL CONDITION [Seaworthiness]: The boat must be free from fire hazards, in good overall condition with the bilges reasonably clean and the visible hull and structure generally sound.<br />The maximum person capacity and horsepower must not be exceeded. <br /><br />Wisconsin:<br />Capacity Plates: The majority of boats manufactured or offered for sale in this state shall have affixed thereto a capacity plate. Never exceed the maximum capacity limits of your boat. To do so is to endanger your life and that of your passengers. It is also accepted evidence that you are operating your boat unlawfully. <br /><br />From the Ohio DNR web site: <br /><br />Capacity Plates <br />(ORC 1547.39 & ORC 1547-40)<br />No person shall operate or permit operation of a watercraft in excess of any of the stated limits on the capacity plate. When no capacity plate exists, no person shall operate or permit operation of a watercraft if a reasonably prudent person would believe the total load aboard or the total horsepower of any motor or engine presents a risk of physical harm to persons or property.

 

[walleyehed]

Re: Suggested...or Law?

Wisconsin:<br />Capacity Plates: The majority of boats manufactured or offered for sale in this state shall have affixed thereto a capacity plate. Never exceed the maximum capacity limits of your boat. To do so is to endanger your life and that of your passengers. It is also accepted evidence that you are operating your boat unlawfully. <br /><br />From the Ohio DNR web site: <br /><br />Capacity Plates <br />(ORC 1547.39 & ORC 1547-40)<br />No person shall operate or permit operation of a watercraft in excess of any of the stated limits on the capacity plate. When no capacity plate exists, no person shall operate or permit operation of a watercraft if a reasonably prudent person would believe the total load aboard or the total horsepower of any motor or engine presents a risk of physical harm to persons or property.

Exactly the reason ALOT of the Bassboat manufacturers have "Unlimited" for max HP...<br />Common sense should come into play somewhere here because ya can't tell me an 80MPH Bassboat is not Dangerous or doesn't have the potential to be "Harmful" to persons or property.<br /><br />Nobody is going to write a ticket for a 25HP being on a 20HP max boat, UNLESS you are being dangerous, and grab their attention to begin with.

 

[bluewater19]

Re: Suggested...or Law?

California Boat capacity<br />Single-hull motorboats less than 20 feet in length<br />which are manufactured after 1972 must display capcity and safe horsepower info. The max weight in motors persons and gear is offered as a guide to boaters and should not be exceeded. It is not a violation of fedral or california state law to exceed recomended maximums. However other states may site an operator who exceeds capcity and horsepower maximums.<br /><br />This came from my 2004 california boating law handbook.<br />I get a new one every year at the boat show and read it.<br />I recomend you get to know the laws in your state because "I didn't know that" is not a valid defence in court.

 

[cajun555]

Re: Suggested...or Law?

Walleyhead, I hear you on the unlimited HP. I'm on Caddo Lake last week. Some guy opens up his bassboat, trimed out the motor. All I could see was air under boat except for maybe 10 sq. foot of boat hitting water. Way to much power for the narrow chanel.

 

[fishndvm]

Re: Suggested...or Law?

Cobra,<br /> The hull weighs 230. Large forward and short rear decks add another 70lbs or so. I weigh 170, and my passenger weighed 204. The engine weighs 70 lbs or so. So far we have nearly 750 without any gear, cooler, anchor, etc. Then there's the issue of the wide beam dragging the water. I'm new at this, but it seems like a lot for 15 horses. What do you think?

 

[cobra 3.0]

Re: Suggested...or Law?

I have a light 140 lb. 13 1/2 Princecraft aluminum cartopper with three adults @ 180 lb. average weight each , gear, and a 15hp two stroke Evinrude. It planes easily.

 

[BillP]

Re: Suggested...or Law?

If in an accident you can bet the "Lawyers Club" will use it against you if the boat is rigged beyond the plate specs. <br /><br /> http://www.pritchettcartoons.com/lawyers2.htm

 

[walleyehed]

Re: Suggested...or Law?

Remove the plate........ <br />It's not the gun that kills, it's the guy pullin' the trigger.<br /><br />I have to edit this because it appears irresponsible to say what I did, BUT, 5 HP more isn't the issue, or AN issue.<br />The guy (like me) that puts a 225 on a boat rated for 150 is headed for trouble if he doesn't understand all variables involved...<br />There's a way around every tree in the forest...WALK around, don't run at it full-bore or you ain't gonna make the turn...in other words, "eliminate" the loose-wheel BEHIND the wheel.

 

[f_inscreenname]

Re: Suggested...or Law?

Many boats around here are obviously over powered and they pass right by the CG station all the time with out a thought.

 

[BillP]

Re: Suggested...or Law?

Don't under estimate the lawyers. If you get into an accident the first thing they will do is check the boat specs. Even if exceeding the capacity plate isn't against the law, a shark dude will likely call it negligence and sue.<br /><br /><br />I see the following example as a similiar situation...I provided a new lawnmower to a rental tennant so he could work part of the rent off. He sued me when something shot out of the chute and injured his ankle. His lawyer said I was negligent by giving him a "non-compliant" mower...when in reality the tennant removed the safety devices and didn't tell anyone. His lawyer went directly to the mower mfg and got a sworn statement saying which safety gear was supposed to be on the unit and even the deck and motor colors. They thought they had me by the gonads big time. But...I got a sworn statement from the local mower company and delivery guy stating it was NIB and all safety equip was there upon delivery to the tennant. The lawsuit immediately came to a halt after that but his lawyer tried real hard to use the mfgs specifications against me.

 

[walleyehed]

Re: Suggested...or Law?

Bill, ya got a good point there..I just would like to think some common sense would "Bless" the person operating the boat, and avoid trouble in the first place.<br />As to the "extra" 5 HP of this original thread, I don't see that being an issue, maybe to some it is.....

 

[Mark42]

Re: Suggested...or Law?

My boat is rated 50hp max, and had a 1967 60 hp v4 Evinrude when I got it. Besides being so darn old that parts are no longer available for it, I decided that the motor was more of a danger to the integrity of the transom than anything else (the boat is 40yrs old!). That old 300+ lbs of motor came off in favor of a 40 hp 185 lbs motor. <br /><br />I figured that extra 115 or so extra lbs of capacity could be put to good use when doing things like rum-running, photo shoots for Playboy, etc.

 

[concept]

Re: Suggested...or Law?

I have a j14 Carolina skiff with a 25 & want to put a 50 on it.

 

[Weedy]

Re: Suggested...or Law?

When a new boat is built from the manufacter, the coast guard will get one of the first 5-10 boats out of the mold. They send it to an independent testing company that puts it through all kinds of tests. They check for horse power ratings, port/starboard stability, if the boat will sink when it is flooded (all new boats must remain on the surface (20' and smaller) etc. The max. hp on the ID plate or sticker is figured up by height of transom x width x length of boat (not sure which way the formula goes if it matters). The only time the coast guard will step in, is if there has been a boating accident. Then, if you have been found to be a fault, the lawyers will be all over you. You will see that on boats 20' and smaller, they are normally the only boats that have the Coast Guard max cap. labelling on them. Boats larger than 20' should only have suggested max HP.