Popped through the intake.

Pmt133

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So, I finally got around to checking everything. No water in separator, no other glaring issues however I did find out that the choke was staying on longer than it should. Like it would choke for 2-3 minutes on a 70 degree day. So I readjusted that and suspect that could've been the issue. It very easily could have gotten knocked around while it was in the garage waiting for the rebuilt engine.

Anyway, I ran her very hard to duplicate the issue and then some and didn't get even a hiccup. Only other difference is it was 75 degrees out not 90. Time will tell but for now, I will say this is resolved.
 

Pmt133

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I will also add I've been testing some of the props I have on hand and thought I had a problem the other day. Trying to hit wide open I found it seemed like it did the same thing but I backed down so quick I didn't want to prove it. After doing a little research it seems the thunderbolt 5 had a rev limiter set around 5k which makes sense and would be about where I had my issue the other day. This confirms my tachometer is off about how much I measured it to be.
 

Pmt133

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I think the rev limiter is like 5100 rpm IIRC
I didn't catch the exact RPM and I haven't found any real mention of it in the limited literature I have other than it is approximately 200 RPM above wide open RPM. 5100 RPM would be in that ball park based on what I saw. Thanks for the info.
 

Pmt133

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Went out again today, had to take advantage of this lovely weather. I left nothing up to the imagination this time. I flogged her hard. Not even a hiccup. I'd almost say she's running too perfect as I actually picked up 2 mph and 150 RPMs. I'll be out again tomorrow as I'm hearing low 80s for daytime temp.
 

Pmt133

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And we're back.... I am unsure if I should just continue this thread or start a new one as I kind of feel like I am starting from square one again. So went out today for the first shake down after trying to find the water leak... To my joy the bilge remained dry... though there was a drip or two down the transom at the end of the hour ride or so. But that is another thread. What happened here was identical in a way to the original issue I was having before the rebuild.

So I'm out running and shoot up to my old marina, about half an hour run. I zip around the river up there absolutely beating the **** out of the thing. Running great and everything. Run back south at a faster than normal clip, about 3800 RPM. Go down the river and decide to open it up one more time. Now I normally kiss the rev limiter anyway and I got a pop or two out of it during this pull. normal for the limiter so I back down to 4000 RPM. Coming back up the river I get a pretty good pop out of the engine at that rpm. Back down to 3000 and head toward the ramp. get a few pops at 3k. Dump the throttle to idle and it shakes a little and is running rough. get to the ramp and shut it off.

Fast forward home. On the trailer it audibly sounds like I have a cylinder occasionally not hitting. sitting with the throttle just off idle (1k rpm) it all of a sudden jumps up 300 RPM and clears up. Idle sounds normal now too. WTF is going on.

So, my list of things to check: (I have work this weekend so it'll be a bit.)
  • Dump the fuel filter and check for debris and replace (It's due)
  • Pull the plugs
  • Compression test
  • check the cap and rotor (new last fall along with plugs and wires)
Future tests:
  • Try and duplicate problem with fuel pressure gauge in line and see if it's a delivery issue. (again)
  • Leak down test
  • I'd check valve lash but it's a net lash 4.3 so you just torque and go
  • Smoke test intake?
One observation I made, there is a tiny bit of oil on the valve cover. Appears to be around breather. I don't believe it is the culprit but perhaps an underlying issue.

Anything else I should test/check? I'll add I rebuilt the carb just before this all started. I don't know that it's a carb issue though as you'd think it would happen almost immediately.

And I have to ask... Ignition systems usually work or don't. That's been my experience with electronics. But if a thunderbolt V system is starting to go out... could this be the behavior you'd see? It doesn't seem right but you never know.
 

Lou C

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I’d look carefully at the cap & rotor, plug wires & plugs. Whichever plug is misfiring might tell the tale. Look for one that looks different than the other 5….
Also if you see any oil coming up around the intake manifold bolts check to see if the intake bolts are loose; might be a vacuum leak but it it’s a Vortec those bolts only are supposed to get like 15 ft lbs not 35-35 like the older pre-Vortec intakes….
Last thing when I had a bad misfire on mine it was a little water getting in a cyl from a head gasket starting to leak but it could also come from an exhaust gasket. You can actually scope the exhaust with an inspection camera if you can slide down the lower exhaust hoses & remove the 90* down pipes. A good idea esp if you run in brackish or salt water…
 

Pmt133

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My experience with my 4.3 is that even with a dropped cylinder it's still smoother than my 3.7.
Still smoother than the 3.0l it replaced but not right may be the better term.

I’d look carefully at the cap & rotor, plug wires & plugs. Whichever plug is misfiring might tell the tale. Look for one that looks different than the other 5….
Also if you see any oil coming up around the intake manifold bolts check to see if the intake bolts are loose; might be a vacuum leak but it it’s a Vortec those bolts only are supposed to get like 15 ft lbs not 35-35 like the older pre-Vortec intakes….
Last thing when I had a bad misfire on mine it was a little water getting in a cyl from a head gasket starting to leak but it could also come from an exhaust gasket. You can actually scope the exhaust with an inspection camera if you can slide down the lower exhaust hoses & remove the 90* down pipes. A good idea esp if you run in brackish or salt water…
Yeah I'll pull everything apart when I get a minute. Plugs etc.

The oil seems to be from the breather. Dripping down the plastic tube onto the cover more than the bolts. And yes... like 20 in-lb on those... little more than finger tight. Its like I wiped the dipstick on the cover.

I know they pressure tested and fluxed the heads again... but on principle with how prone these are to cracking I really am tempted to just replace them and eliminate them from contention. I'm not getting water in oil per analysis but it is still suspicious.

The exhaust was apart in the fall when I added riser extensions. At that point in time all was good. The manifolds only really saw salt use last fall as they were replaced with the rebuild before I tore apart the boat. Easy enough to probe though.
 

Pmt133

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My point was that if it's running rough it's probably more than one dropped cylinder.
Fair enough. On the trailer you could hear what sounded like only a slight miss pretty consistent. I'll add, the first start this spring it ran like crap. I forgot all about it. Surging sounded like it was down a few holes. Then like a light switch it cleared up.
 

nola mike

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Yes, for sure first test should be to determine whether this is fuel or electrical. Like that post, I love to throw a timing light on each plug wire as a first step. Not bullet proof, but if everything is firing it lowers the probability of an ignition problem.
 

Pmt133

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I have a funeral service I have to take care of monday but beyond that I'm on vacation all week. I'll do the driveway tests tuesday and get everything cleared up. From there if it all passes the sniff test, I'll go back out and make it happen again. As its happening I'll put the timing light on everything and the coil wire too and see if I see it. If it drops out on the coil as well I know I have a coil or pickup issue at that point. If not I have no idea.

That being said, as is said around here... its never the coil and I agree with that. I have to find the flow chart in manual 18 too just to see if there is anything else ignition side to test. If memory serves, it really is for diagnosing a no start condition though.
 

Lou C

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Wondering if it could be an intermittent connection for the module in the distributor or a bad ground….
Last random thought….that cutout switch for the Alpha? I had a bad running off idle problem on my Cobra caused by sticking ESA switches, fixed about 10 years ago!
 

Pmt133

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Wondering if it could be an intermittent connection for the module in the distributor or a bad ground….
Last random thought….that cutout switch for the Alpha? I had a bad running off idle problem on my Cobra caused by sticking ESA switches, fixed about 10 years ago!
I've tried hitting the switch with a hammer in the past with no change. Oddly enough this is the assembly from my 3.0l which didn't present this problem. However that switch is 22 years old. I could unplug it when it starts happening to test as well if the failure isn't "vibration based".

The ignition module for thunderbolt 5 is on the elbow. Distributor contains only the pickup. Could be a bad ground as it didn't happen at all last year and now after pulling the engine it's back!
 
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