1 minute until pee ?

Tripp Halbert

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1996 johnson 70hp. Just bought and tuned up this motor. Always had a weak telltale stream, it seems. Today it took the motor 1 minute to begin peeing (running on hose, same scenario i run my 78 55hp johnson on, which has the pee strength of a horse)... would u guys say its time for a new impeller or are there some tests I can take to ensure everything is fine?
 

Daviet

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Re: 1 minute until pee ?

Usually a weak tell-tale is a sign of a water pump going out. Since you just bought the engine, if you don't know when the pump was replaced last, I would install a new pump.
 

GA_Boater

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Re: 1 minute until pee ?

I second Daviet. If in doubt, change it out. It's not hard and if you get stuck, one or two or three of us will sit off to one side and drink your beer as we yell out advice and encouragement. :joyous:
 

Tripp Halbert

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Re: 1 minute until pee ?

That may be the wisest answer I've ever heard hahah love it. Well I will end up changing it out just to be safe, are any bolts likely to break on the lower unit as the water jacket typically does? I had a bad experience with the water jacket removal attempt :(
 

oldcatamount

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Re: 1 minute until pee ?

When running an outboard on muffs, run the water at full blast. But I agree with all above, a new impeller is good advice. Take your time with the bolts. I use a propane torch with a wide flame tip and Map gas. Keep the torch moving and be patient.
 

phillnjack2

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Re: 1 minute until pee ?

my engine is same as yours trip ,so you will be able to do this very easy.
these are so cheap and easy to replace its not worth taking a chance with.

when in a water butt I can get full stream from pee hole on just the starter in under 20 seconds.
when on muffs it can come out pretty much the same time but not as powerfull , about 80%.
when running these motors should have a very strong tell tale coming out.

to change water pump is dead easy on these engines, and there is a simple trick to getting at the shift rod connector.

on the side of engine where the gearshift cable connects, there is a linkage that goes across the engine with a R-clip securing it in place.
pull off the r -clip and push the rod towards the otherside and it releases the shift rod easy.
you need a torch to see what's going on if the VRO pump is still on the engine though as its sort of under there.
This can save hours trying to fiddle about and not having 22 tiny fingers to help you take screws and bolts off etc.
I can do a water pump on these and have it back running complete inside 20 minutes without rushing it.
it realy is a easy job to do (providing no stuck solid drive shafts)

ive put an arrow showing the R=clip, just pull the r-clip out and push the rod in, might take a bit of a nudge to get it going though.
but look with a torch at the othe rside and you;
'l see whats going to happen ,it comes out of the allow block thing and lets the shif trod loose.
then undo the keg bolts and just drop it down and off.
very easy simple job if all the bolts are nice and free, and do make sure ALL the bolts are off including the hidden one under the trim plate.
hope im explain it ok

phill
 

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Tripp Halbert

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Re: 1 minute until pee ?

Ok thanks phil. How do I make sure shift rod is correctly back in place when I go to reinstall lower unit andsecure back the rclip?
 

Tripp Halbert

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Re: 1 minute until pee ?

also here is the motor peeing when sat in water this morning. PS20130824_071600.jpg it Ran like a champ and at good temps. this look weak for a telltale on this motor Phill?
 

oldcatamount

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Re: 1 minute until pee ?

It looks fine. did it still take 1 minute to start or was thatjust when you ran it on the muffs?
 

Tripp Halbert

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Re: 1 minute until pee ?

No this only took about 10 seconds to start pee in water, unlike the minute it took on muffs.
 

oldcatamount

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Re: 1 minute until pee ?

That's more like it. That pee stream is merely an indicator so you can see at a glance if water is circulating in the motor. It doesn't mean the impeller is good, it just means the impeller is working at that moment. Pays to keep an eye on it.
 

phillnjack2

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Re: 1 minute until pee ?

just put the motor in neutral,
you realy cant go wrong with the shift rod anyway.
as long as you don't twist the rod around when its out, so just don't move it about when doing the water pump.

once you take the R-clip off and look with a torchlight youl see a small bolt that tightens a sort of split thing on other end of
the shaft where it links to shiftrod.
no need to touch this bolt, .. just noet the pin on the rod that goes across engine is what goes into the shift rod at the top of rod.
when you push the shaft (once r-clip removed) it wilol automatically push the pin out of the shift rod.
now the shift rod is completely free at the top of the engine and now you just undo the bolts and drop the leg.
once you've replaced the water pump etc, you simply slide it all back up and the shift rod is now visble with a torch etc.
while lookinh with the torch you grab the rod on other side of engine and guide it in the hole and pull the rod back to
original position and fit the r-clip.......it realy is that simple.

DO NOT touch the bolts with any FLAME/HEAT unless you have a problem with them.
the flame will destroy the paintwork straight away,and that's not needed if the bolts come out ok.
when putting the bolts back in gearbox to midsection, put a drop of waterproof grease on them so next year when you put in a
new impellor it all comes apart so easy that you can do this job quickly.
while your at it, lubricate the rod that goes through to linkage with grease as well.
also grease all waterpump bolts/nuts and any bolts you can get at while its all down.

when greasing the top of the drive shaft, make sure you grease only the splines, do not put any grease on the very top of shaft !!!!!!!
I always tend to smear some grease all down the shaft so as to help avoid future corrosion as well.

to keep the exhaust rubber in place I often put a tiny few dabs of superglue just to hold it place (it can help ha ha )



phill
 
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Tripp Halbert

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Re: 1 minute until pee ?

Awesome walk-thru Phill! You have eased my mind about doing this job haha sounds like u can do this in ur sleep!.

Okayokay one more question guys: impeller kit $90 or basic impeller for $20 ? Is the kit really worth spending 90 ? I mean the failing part is most likely the rubber impeller, right?
 

phillnjack2

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Re: 1 minute until pee ?

Well ive done tons of impellers and only ever had to buy 1 complete kit.
small scores on the base are nothing to worry about, but if there is big tram lines that are deep then yes full kit.
personally I would just buy an impeller and take it from there.
if you do find its real bad in there then just take back the new impeller and swap for the full kit.
but to be honest I think youl find its just a nice new impeller that's needed, and be gentle with the water pump housing,

oh and when putting it in do make sure you put plenty of washing up soap to lubricate it going in and for initial start up.
and washing up soap will also not harm any internals or harm any rubbers, it will just give them a soapy clean.

do not put any grease on the pipe from engine to water pump or the small hose could fall off
during re-assembly.
on the gearbox itself around the edges youl see a couple of pins that line up with the mid section
give these a good clean and a touch of waterproof grease as well for future ease of take off.

I would say that doing a water pump is only 1/2 the difficulty of getting the carbs off for cleaning.
it takes me a lot longer to get carbs off than gearbox off for sure.

take prop off before you start as well, the gearbox is heavy enough without anything extra on it.
have plenty of scrap wood around or something soft to lay the gearbox on when its off, and once the shiftrod is disconnected have the engine tilted 1/2 way up.

just anything that will make life easy I can think of at moment ha ha

good luck


phill
 
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GA_Boater

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Re: 1 minute until pee ?

I think Phil gets all the beer for this one. :) Good detail, Phil - I could work on a Johnson impeller now.
 

phillnjack2

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Re: 1 minute until pee ?

first time I took the gearbox off this engine (60hp Johnson 1995) I undone all the usual stuff and struggled like mad getting my fingers in and putting back nuts and bolts etc.
when I saw the R-clip and saw what it actually does I was sickened to think I spent so much time un-needed ha ha .
since then I took off the spare gearbox and realy couldbnt belive how simple this is.
also taken the gearbox off and put new impeller in again as was not so sure of it when had a small blockage.

when I told a friend how quick I could do this he said impossible,so I showed him that I can get the leg off before he is finished a cigarette, it blew his mind to see it come off so fast.

its all easy providing the bolts come loose nice and the drive shaft aint frozen to crank !!!!!!!!.

phill
 

phillnjack2

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Re: 1 minute until pee ?

everyone one of us finds a nice easy way to do something and if we share with others we all benefit.
ive found loads of easy ways to do stuff on here that the books don't mention.
and the people on here are always ready to help you out when they know your stuck.

this forum is brilliant for educating all the members, as i'm sure even some of the outboard technicians find something they
didn't know that can make their life simpler as well.

like the timing of my engine, no way could I get it done without the help of some very helpful knowledgeable people on here.

im just waiting to hear that tripp has done his water pump and its been a easy job for him.



phill
 

GA_Boater

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Re: 1 minute until pee ?

I hope Tripp has a better time than I did today. Worst impeller job ever for me - Darn shift shaft. Last time on my motor, buttah. This time, fighting all the way.
 

Tripp Halbert

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Jul 30, 2013
Messages
202
Re: 1 minute until pee ?

Engine peed fine everytime in water so I tried a new set of muffs. Now using round ones vs the square ones. Seems to start peein in 10 to 15 seconds now. I will keep an eye on it tho and use this thread for my future waterpump job. Now a new problem exists tho -__- my lync n sync got all screwed up during the motor swap to another boat and now my idle is all whack.. Phill I'm now in the same boat as u, or different boat with same motor and similar problems :) I will start a new thread.
 
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