105 water pump

[stephenca118]

I picked up this 1970 bayliner for my brother. It has a 1970 Chrysler 105. Last licensed in 2013. Supposedly the lower end had been rebuilt by a marine shop.
I finally got it running yesterday after rebuilding the distributer and syncing the carbs and timing. And a whole lot of other stuff.
Anyway, after cranking for about 30 seconds it started, ran rough for a few seconds then just purred at idle. I ran it about 30 seconds more looking for water out the exhaust bellows port and nothing. Shut it down. It looked like some water spray was coming out the....what is it called......CRS.....sorry. That opening just above the prop.
I tightened the muffs around the water inlet to try to force more water in and ran it another 30 seconds with no water coming out the exhaust bellows.
I pulled the gear case to check the pump. Drained the oil, it was clean and blue but had some debris in it but no shiny metal. No water in the oil but I doubt the boat was ever in the water after the gear case was rebuilt.
The cavity had water in it. Removed the pump housing and I am questioning its condition. Photos attached.
Is that the correct impeller? The one I ordered looks different.
Should I replace the housing? It looks very pitted.
I am not new to mechanics, even I/Os but am new to outboards.
Thank you very much for your time reading this and for any feedback.
Steve

 

[las]

What a nice boat and motor!
If you can get a new or better impeller housing I would go for it. With all the pitting I think the impeller would be worn rather fast.
Although not the same motor, my Chrysler 65hp also had a revised impeller from what I've learned. It started out as a 10 blade and then ended up a 6 blade one. I've only had the 6 blade one and it pumps really good.

 

[las]

Oh and one more thing.
Remember to mount it and rotate it in the proper direction of travel, otherwise you could end up with a blade on the impeller facing the wrong way. But I suppose you already knew! Good luck with it.

 

[stephenca118]

Oh and one more thing.
Remember to mount it and rotate it in the proper direction of travel, otherwise you could end up with a blade on the impeller facing the wrong way. But I suppose you already knew! Good luck with it.

Thank you very much for your reply. Yes I will rotate so the blades are aligned correctly, thank you. I am having trouble finding a housing, the correct one anyway, so I may try to clean this one up if I can. Or keep looking.
And I like the boat in your picture, very nice.
Thank you again.

 

[las]

Your welcome and thanks for the compliment, I have to say it's still in the mock up phase
Maybe get hold of one of those cheap honing devices with 3 stones you attach to the drill and then sand remaining sharp edges with a fine grit sandpaper. Just make sure the hone is perpendicular to the house so you don't end up with a cone shape.
Most times with these old engines perfect is not an option, so less will have to do.

 

[stephenca118]

Your welcome and thanks for the compliment, I have to say it's still in the mock up phase
Maybe get hold of one of those cheap honing devices with 3 stones you attach to the drill and then sand remaining sharp edges with a fine grit sandpaper. Just make sure the hone is perpendicular to the house so you don't end up with a cone shape.
Most times with these old engines perfect is not an option, so less will have to do.

I did clean the housing up a bit using wet very fine grit. I will give it a try when I get the new impeller. But now I see this engine has a thermostat. I guess the later models do not. The clymers book says nothing about a thermostat. I did force water up the brass tube and it does come out the thermostat hole but it takes a while to get up there. So I will work on it more tomorrow.
Thank you again for your help on this.
Steve

 

[Nordin]

Stephenca118 I refurbish impeller housings by using chemical metal and fill the pithing with it.
Then I sand it to a smooth surface and it works really well.
A new impeller in that housing will work but not pump with full flow and the impeller will not last as long as it should.

 

[jerryjerry05]

The housing's fine.
They work with a lot more pitting than that little bit you got.
But like Nordin suggested you can fill the holes with something like Marine Tex and sand it down. Way too much work for the results.
The part# for the impeller is F438065 this changes to F 438165-1 the 6 blade. Franz Marine will be able to get the right stuff.
The vanes will orient themselves when you start the motor, no need to turn the impeller.
You sure of the year on the motor? There should be a plate on the inside of the bottom cowl towards the front. It will have the model, serial# and year and HP.

It's called the snout, use a BIG bucket or pail and put it in DEEEEP 4-5" over the cavitation plate.
The pump isn't self priming and needs to be under water for initial start up.
That should be ok until the next time you take it out.

https://www.boats.net/product/mercury/F438065?ref=cdefe08bc5a05df8dcdcae8d167940ca03146759

 

[stephenca118]

Thank you very much for the feedback. I have time so I may try to clean the housing up a bit more with some filler.
I was able to attach a hose to the fill pipe, removed the stat and water did finally come up through the stat opening, but it took a while. I am guessing the holes are pretty small that the water goes through.
Thank you again for the information and ideas.
Steve

 

[las]

My pump house looked like this and from what I could tell it pumped pretty good!

 

[stephenca118]

My pump house looked like this and from what I could tell it pumped pretty good!

I see. Wow, mine does not look that bad. I cleaned it up a bit and will put it back together, once I get the right impeller.
Thank you again las for the help and feedback, have a great weekend,
Steve

 

[stephenca118]

Well I got the wrong impeller. Thought I got a good deal but it figures. The six blade I got says it is a 523065 for a 75-140HP Chrysler. It stands about 1-1/8" tall where as mine is about 3/4" tall. I am guessing my older 70 model takes the shorter version.
So my 12 blade does not look bad, still pliable and I am guessing it has not run since the lower end was "rebuilt".
Is there any detriment to running the 12 blade verse the 6 blade? Would the 12 blade cause more cavitation than the 6?
I am tempted to put it back together and see if it pushes water out with the stat out. The stat was froze, by the way.
I have been finding the F438065 online but none of the ads tell me how tall the impeller is. Can anyone confirm it is a 3/4 inch verse the 1-1/8 inch?
Anyone want two 523065 impellers? Say $15 includes USPS priority shipping?
Thank you again for looking and have a great weekend!
Steve

 

[Nordin]

The F438065 or F438065-1 is for sure the one with 3/4 in tall vanes.
F523065 should be the one with 1 in tall vanes.
From the pic of your boat and engine it looks like the engine is a 1970 or 1969. Does the id tag says 1970?
1966-73 105Hp calls for the 1 in tall impeller and 1974-76 for the 3/4.
But the impeller housing can have change out and if the 1 in is to tall then you need the 438065-1 3/4 in impeller.

 

[stephenca118]

Thank you for the confirmation of the impeller size, Nordin . I will order the 458065-1 as I need the 3/4".
Yes the serial # says the engine is a 1970, per the table from the clymers shop manual.
Thank you again and have a great weekend.
Steve

 

[jerryjerry05]

They sell parts here. If you can't find them here,?? Franz Marine should have the parts you need.

 

[tg3690]

Stephenca118 I refurbish impeller housings by using chemical metal and fill the pithing with it.
Then I sand it to a smooth surface and it works really well.
A new impeller in that housing will work but not pump with full flow and the impeller will not last as long as it should.

Nordin, what kind of "chemical metal" do you use?

 

[Nordin]

topgun3690 as I am in Sweden Europe I do not know if the brand I use is available in other part of the world.
For the impeller housing there is no special requirement for temperature etc.
There is brand Belzona 1111 for industrial use that you can repair engine blocks such cracks in water jackets that I have used to fill spots in power heads, cracks in water jacket and the engines is still running with no issues.
This chemical metal is to good to use in this case I believe, but I think JB weld and equal brands are good enough.

 

[tg3690]

topgun3690 as I am in Sweden Europe I do not know if the brand I use is available in other part of the world.
For the impeller housing there is no special requirement for temperature etc.
There is brand Belzona 1111 for industrial use that you can repair engine blocks such cracks in water jackets that I have used to fill spots in power heads, cracks in water jacket and the engines is still running with no issues.
This chemical metal is to good to use in this case I believe, but I think JB weld and equal brands are good enough.

Good old JB Weld.....thanks for reply.