140hp to 225hp upgrade

[nphilbro]

I'm hanging a 225hp Evinrude on my 19.9ft Glasply runabout next week. It's not really top end that I'm trying to achieve since I already get 41mph from my Johnson 140hp (at 5000-5200). My hole shot right now is extremely sluggish with a 13 1/4x19 SS and I can't keep a steady plane unless I run 25mph @ 4200rpms which kills the mpg big time and is too many rpm for long running times. The 13 1/2x 15 is a complete joke (ventilates, winds the engine). I've been looking for a 150 or 175 (6cylinders) but this 225 became available in my price range and my hope is that the power/weight ratio is maximized with this motor compared to the previous alternatives.

Does anyone have recommendations on the best setup for this? Right now it won't plane steady until at least 25mph @ 4200rpm. Should I be looking at a higher prop angle, 4 blades, combination of things? The AV plate will sit about 2" below the hull unless I put a transom riser plate on.

Objectives:
Maximize fuel economy.
Good cruising speed on plane w/lower rpms


The hull is rated for 200hp but the 225hp is the same weight - and as I said, more top end speed is not my objective but a strong, steady plane at cruising speed without winding out the rpms.

I've been thinking about reinforcing the transom anyway just because it's a 30 year old boat even though it's my understanding that the hard top/outboard versions of this same hull run 225hp motors all the time. I spoke with a mechanic at one of the Port Angeles marinas today and he thought a 140 was a bit light for this boat (he sees Glasplys all the time).

Any thoughts?
Thanks!

 

[jimmbo]

Re: 140hp to 225hp upgrade

what year is your 140? looking at your avitar it looks like a pre 1985 model. crankrated 140. approx 115hp propshaft. the 225 is prop rated. 110hp difference should add up to about 22mph faster. It will most likely be chinewalking as well, so mount the engine so the antiventilation plate is 1 in to 1 1/2 inches above the botto of the hull. That should reduce the chinewalk and raise the speed a couple more miles an hour

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: 140hp to 225hp upgrade

Dangerous and no one from iboats endorses over-powering and violating the USCG label.

 

[steelespike]

Re: 140hp to 225hp upgrade

Do you have trim tabs? Have you checked the boat for accumulated water in the foam under the floor?
have you tried stern lifting props?
Your 140 uses about 14 gallons per hour at wot.
The 225 will use about 22.5 at wot Not sure I see a savings there.
I don't see running the 225 at the the 140s partial throttle fuel use as working very well.
Your adding about 140 lbs at the transom I don't see that as improving cruising speed throttle setting.
The only advantage I see is the 225 will be loafing at the 140s top speed.
saving wear and tear but not fuel.

 

[jimmbo]

Re: 140hp to 225hp upgrade

Dangerous and no one from iboats endorses over-powering and violating the USCG label.

More the 60% of outboard boats here have bigger motors than the USCG label. My first was rated for 90, bought it new with a 140, then again the crossflow 140 never made more than 128 at the crank. Second boat rated for 100 had a 115 on it. Cousins boat, rated for 70hp was purchased with an 80. Uncles boat rated for 65, came with a 70. Friend had same boat as my uncle, it came with an 85.

 

[nphilbro]

Re: 140hp to 225hp upgrade

I absolutely appreciate the concern for safety and will have to admit that I'm approaching it with a good degree of caution and have called another marina concerning this over-power issue. I got a similar response regarding the hull design and transom - this hull and transom is identical to the heavier closed cabin 19.9s and they have apparently put a number of 235s on those.

To reiterate, WOT and absolute top end is not priority here and I'll admit that adding another 140lbs to the back isn't ideal.

The only advantage I see is the 225 will be loafing at the 140s top speed.
saving wear and tear but not fuel.

This is closer to what I'm trying to achieve. The 140 sucks gas fast at WOT and I don't like running it at a consistent 4200-4800 to get a steady dry plane because not only does the fuel economy suck, but it can be hard on it running like that for an hour or two getting out to the fishing grounds.

Do you have trim tabs? Have you checked the boat for accumulated water in the foam under the floor?
have you tried stern lifting props?

I don't have trim tabs. Had a doelfin, however, that made it super sloppy and performance increased immensely when I removed it.
There's no foam. Period. The stringers themselves are hollow fiberglass so there's not even wood to rot. If water gets into the hull I've got a clear visual from the deck to the back of the bilge. It's got an automatic pump with a manual override.

I'm not sure what a stern lifting prop is. Is it a cupped prop?

The 140 is currently raised about 1 1/2 inches above the hull and if the temp is 60degrees and I'm running on salty glass I can get nice plane at 18mph @ 3200rpms with just my 9-year-old boy and myself.

I'm looking forward to trying it out. It's a heavy boat, 21 degree deadrise on an 8ft beam (or close to) with a deep-V wave cutting hull. If I don't like the performance after a month or two I'll sell this motor and find something in lighter 6 cylinder but stay out of the 4 cylinders.

There seems to be consensus that I'm not going to get both better economy and ride. I guess I'd rather burn through fuel than motors. I'll report back next week.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: 140hp to 225hp upgrade

More the 60% of outboard boats here have bigger motors than the USCG label. My first was rated for 90, bought it new with a 140, then again the crossflow 140 never made more than 128 at the crank. Second boat rated for 100 had a 115 on it. Cousins boat, rated for 70hp was purchased with an 80. Uncles boat rated for 65, came with a 70. Friend had same boat as my uncle, it came with an 85.

All of those errors will not change the iboats policy of NOT endorsing overpowering. iboats will not be liable and it is not recommended.

End of discussion.

 

[jimmbo]

Re: 140hp to 225hp upgrade

Well there are no laws against it in my country. And USCG does not apply either. Come to think of it, 95% of the world isn't bound to the USCG.

 

[nphilbro]

Re: 140hp to 225hp upgrade

Well, to truly end the overpower discussion, I've located a 200hp Evinrude long shaft (1989) that I'm going to install instead. I will admit that I was a bit uneasy about the 225hp and since I boat on Salt Water and it's an older boat I'm going to stick with what the plaque says. Not to mention, Coast Guard and Sheriff's inspections are fairly common.

I also located a CMC 6" jackplate with a 5 1/2" rise (rated to 300hp) that will give me a whole lot more latitude to play around with and hopefully give me the ability to tune it in closer to the performance I'm seeking and being a long shaft vs. XL shaft will remain in factory spec as well.

Considering that new motors are prop rated vs. the motors of 1980 when the hull was made I figure I was looking at adding a lot more than 25hp over.

I'm picking both up today and will post some pics in the next day or two when I get them installed.

 

[nphilbro]

Re: 140hp to 225hp upgrade

Here's the "new" motor. Power and length are within factory spec. I also put on a CMC 6" jackplate with 6" height adjustment. I'm not sure what the prop is, I'll look at that tomorrow. Getting the motor off the trailer took all the energy I had left after a 6 hour drive.

 

[jimmbo]

Re: 140hp to 225hp upgrade

I'm not trying to rain on your parade but the engine you just bought is a 1978
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2330831730101354590vqIFmE

 

[nphilbro]

Re: 140hp to 225hp upgrade

No rain...I realized that the moment I saw the engine. I knocked a bunch off his asking price. I have spare parts all over my garage for this motor anyway. I should have made the note above. I know it's a crank rated 200 but it's still 60hp more than the 140 I took off. I think it should still prove to be a big improvement. If not, I'll get it tuned up and running really good and looking nice and put it back on the market and find something else.

I just checked the prop and it's the factory 14 1/2 x 19 aluminum. We'll see how she rides first, then start tweaking it.

 

[steelespike]

Re: 140hp to 225hp upgrade

"No rain" ?

 

[nphilbro]

Re: 140hp to 225hp upgrade

I meant, I was surprised when I saw it was 10 years older when I went to look at it but I also didn't pay for a 1989.

I got it mounted this morning after renting a cherry picker, gave it good lubrication in each cylinder throughout slowly turning the flywheel (clockwise with water running). I checked spark - solid on all six, then started it up for a minute. Sounds really good but is sure to p1ss of the neighbors so I'll slowly break it back in on the water. It hasn't run in over 2 years so I have to change the lower unit oil and all the other good stuff. I need to mount the new control box and get the tilt and trim hooked up too. My splashwell is covered in grease right now from the steering cable.

This CMC jackplate is really cool and I can't wait to see what it does for tuning in performance.

 

[cokeman22]

Re: 140hp to 225hp upgrade

Hmmmm that jackplate looks exactly what I need . Can it hold a 250 n if u don't mind can u point in the rite direction to find one at a good price . Thx

 

[nphilbro]

Re: 140hp to 225hp upgrade

It's rated for "V6 up to 300HP" but apparently not for V8's.

I got it on CL for $150 and it was brand new - bolts still in the bag. I think it had only been on there 20 minutes when I made arrangements to meet the owner the next day after work.

I've been looking for one of these for a long time and this was the best deal I've seen to date.

Good luck, CM.

 

[emoney]

Re: 140hp to 225hp upgrade

Good for you and I think you'll really appreciate the jack plate. I had one on a bass boat waaayyyyyy back and they're ideal for getting skinny. I'm sure once you get it tweaked (running set-up that is) you should be able to reach your goal. I had a 140 and while those are great motors, they sure do drink the fuel, lol. You may not even notice a difference in fuel consumption, which would be a plus. However, you now need to update your signature :0

 

[cokeman22]

Re: 140hp to 225hp upgrade

Nice. good score. Gotta love C.L. ill have to keep my eyes open on there . Update on how the plate works out .

 

[nphilbro]

Re: 140hp to 225hp upgrade

Here's a thread on my adventures tuning it in.
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=566813