150 Blackmax overheating

[Iceman66]

1) It was over heating.
2) Took stats and poppet out to test.
3) Tested, It ran good/cool.......Must be 1 of 2 or 2 of 2 items from #2 removed causing it to over heat!!
4) Ran/tested it again, It went to s**t/steaming/cough/puked............A water in cylinder leak now? WTF? Where? How? How to fix this next issue?
5) Putting new stats and poppet in hoping this fixes item 4? Impeller? Hmmmm, probably not.

Are you sure it is REALLY over temp? Understood the alarm, but you know electronics, it can be flaky. Get the parts back in, perhaps install a H20 pressure gauge in the mean time, if the alarm goes off again, second source temp measurements, we'll go from there.

It didnt went to s**t/steaming/cough//puked, has been like that since I got the engine,
not quite sure about the steam issue, but the coughing and hesitating for sure,thought is was some carbon build up .
Never had the alarm before, thats why I thought checking poppet and stats.

I am just asking: could a leak leting water into a cylinder/s cause the engine to overheat?

Sorry if I havent make myself clear on the explaining here, must be because I am slow Norwegian doing the best I can.

What kind of a second temp measurement do you recommend to use ,dont have access to a different original temp sensor.
Where can I connect a pressure gauge, and what pressure should I have?

 

[sam am I]

ahhhhhhhhhh, it clear as mud now......J/K, but we're getting somewhere now. Headed to lunch now........Someone else will chime in, you're in good hands now

 

[Dukedog]

Damn Iceman, he's got me all screwy now too! Lets see if I"M on tha same page......Poppet, stats and mist issue asked and addressed. Boat taken for a ride and all was well. At first anyway. Next time out started doin' same thing again. That's been addressed. Now rough idle and bad gaskets ? asked. Tha bad gasket/head question was asked because of ? Your reason for askin' is? Is it just an inquiring question if THAT would cause an over heat (which I thought we had already came to a conclusion on (poppet and stats) or do you know you have water intrusion in one of tha cylinders?

Tha short term rough idle, which was added after tha original questions, is probably a "minor tune/adjustment or fuel delivery" problem. Short term fix, make sure tha motor is at least trimmed to level or a touch positive when idling. Get tha over heat fixed first which I thought we had got figured out.......

Is that pretty much up ta speed or have I mis-read, mis-understood or missed readin' between tha lines part somewhere?

All this did bring ta mind something that should have been asked several posts ago. Have ya done a compression check and do you have a water pressure gauge? I just flat-out forgot ta ask till ya brought up tha gasket/head thing.

Now for tha last thing. A strong pee stream can be miss leading

I'm sure I missed something somewhere. If I did let me know...........Did ya find tha serial number? Curious?

 

[Iceman66]

"Tha bad gasket/head question was asked because of ? Your reason for askin' is?
Is it just an inquiring question if THAT would cause an over heat? " Yes

"do you know you have water intrusion in one of tha cylinders?" No

Possible the white smoke fouls me, caused by a cold and very wet air here in west-norway at the moment.

Reason for asking is I want to be sure I dont buy new parts( take weeks until I got the hand on it here in norway), before I am sure what causes this overheat or maybe just a sensor fault.



Anyway, I will do a comp test and try to measure temp with some gauge, then reply.

 

[Dukedog]

If comp test checks out and there is no evidence of water intrusion then there would be no reason ta pull tha heads.........

 

[sam am I]

"Tha bad gasket/head question was asked because of ? Your reason for askin' is?
Is it just an inquiring question if THAT would cause an over heat? " Yes

"do you know you have water intrusion in one of tha cylinders?" No

Possible the white smoke fouls me, caused by a cold and very wet air here in west-norway at the moment.

Reason for asking is I want to be sure I dont buy new parts( take weeks until I got the hand on it here in norway), before I am sure what causes this overheat or maybe just a sensor fault.



Anyway, I will do a comp test and try to measure temp with some gauge, then reply.

Hoelfully not repeating/treading anything here, but aside from running bad(not sure at this point if that's related to overheating, kinda thinking not)I really don't think a leaking head gasket would/could cause overheating. I'd think if there was a leak in the cylinder, it would tend to cool things due to the fire in that cylinder being dampened w water.

If having both stats out and poppet out and it's REALLY overheating AND only'ish at 3K and above, I'd again say.......It's most likely low water flow/pressure, perhaps as above "Impeller? Mouse? Grates/Screens? Tartar/Plaque build up?" H2O pressure gauge tap typically goes here.........




Water pressure data(green line) that can be expected at this tap point (Estimated 20'ish hr. old impeller)



You can use a "no touch" temp gauge. They are getting pretty cheap these days. UPS deliver in Norway?

http://www.amazon.com/BAFX-Products-...Infrared+Laser

 

[Iceman66]

Thanks,this is great info! Compression checked out: 122-125 psi on all 6

I will try to run without the stats and poppet,
then with stats but no poppet and the otherway around and see what happens with alarm and temperature.(Hopefully I can get a no touch measure)
Will try to get a pressure gauge too and measure while testing the above , and at the different rpm`s.

Picture shows that the pressure gauge is connected where the frost plug was,right?
Do I have to connect there? Thinking of making threads and the bits from doing that.

Will reply when done, hopefully later today, probably tomorrow.

 

[sam am I]

Thanks,this is great info! Compression checked out: 122-125 psi on all 6

Very good, headway

I will try to run without the stats and poppet,

If alarm still goes off, it's 1) false alarm or 2) H2O problem (Impeller etc). Second source temp. measurement helps differentiate.

then with stats but no poppet and the otherway around and see what happens with alarm and temperature.(Hopefully I can get a no touch measure)

We'll have to be careful here w diagnostics, taking out those parts then running and then "no alarm" now can lead a guy to think its one of, or two of, the parts he just took out. Where in reality, there is a chance(albeit smaller, but one none the less) a weak/marginal impeller etc now is better able to cool the engine not setting off a REAL overheat alarm..........The problem can "mask" itself.

Will try to get a pressure gauge too and measure while testing the above , and at the different rpm`s

. Yes, this will help differentiate out a "masked" problem and simply tell us "H2O is issue" and NOT stats or poppet!!

Picture shows that the pressure gauge is connected where the frost plug was,right?

Yeah, think your block has just a plug here?, So yes and perhaps my arrow above was a little mis-leading? (Sry). On my block(poppet's water pressure port/tap lives here), once tee'd off is where my sender went in. Mine is electronic, analog needle type with tube etc and fittings is perfectly fine as well.

Do I have to connect there? Thinking of making threads and the bits from doing that.

Hmmmm....Think the frost plug hole is a 0.5". It's low pressure, a hollow stem something like below would work if you can find it in right size. Just plumb your pressure tube off the stem




or plastic/Nylon


http://www.cob-industries.com/nylon.aspx

The 0.5" dia "hollow stem" type and plumb the pressure tube off that.


http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/ite...5429&catid=858

Not sure about the stem on this one though, looks hollow as they have a tube attached somehow. Small sized might not have vented stems, could drill it though?

Will reply when done, hopefully later today, probably tomorrow.

........GL and plz do

 

[Dukedog]

Got a problem ,the overheat alarm sounds immediately when engine passes 3000 rpm.
Back to idle, alarm turns off almost at once.
Strong and good tell tale but a bit hot I guess,impeller 4 months old.
Suspect poppet valve, I have the "old " design with the small cover.

Anyone that can tell the part nr on the poppet valve kit I need?

When I bought the engine I noticed that the tell tale pressure vary from strong to less strong when Idling, depending on therm`s opening or closeing I guess.
Now the tell tale is very strong all the time at idling.
As long as I have had the engine there has never come any water out with the exhaus from the two exhausholes above the water.

Should it?

Need some advice here!

Here is your advice.......

This is tha right way to deal with an over heat problem that's not obvious and no water pressure gauge on an older motor. When ya start nit-pickin' coolin' parts (which are 'bout tha cheapest parts of tha motor playin' what I consider tha most important part of it) ya get inta more trouble than before ya started. There is absolutely no reason to leave anything out ta test what its gonna do. Leave anything out and its gonna over heat. Now if ya wanna go with tha "experimentin' get after it. But like ya said "parts are a long time gettin' here"...............jmo

This is ALL done tha very first thing......Reason being is usually old anyway..

Water pump "KIT" (complete not just an impeller).
Stats either checked or replaced.
Poppet replaced.

Sam, what ya gonna do with that. Its useless. Hes got reduce tha opening down to whatever size tubing comes with tha gauge........

 

[sam am I]

I assumed the man would just buy a fitting or two as needed, Norway has hardware stores.. Just a work around to tapping his block.

"Leave anything out and its gonna over heat."? If leaving/taking out the stats and poppet will actually make it overheat?

Duke's been at this a hella way long time then me, but I'd have to see that ^^^ to believe it. I however wish I knew 1/8 what he knew.......I truly respect Duke's experience and wisdom immensely.

That said.......

Open/removed stats allows water freely out the both top end cylinders water jackets and open/removed poppet allows water freely out the both cylinder bottom water jackets ........Water will bleed from that engine(if the pump is working properly and no mouse, plugged screens etc) like a stuck pig w both stats and poppet out!!! Warm, cold, slow, fast......it'll **** to beat the band.........jmo

 

[Dukedog]

Theres a pipe plug already there. That's what ya reduce down ta fit.
No poppet-no pressure.....
No stats- no water stayin' long enough ta carry out tha heat......

 

[Iceman66]

Time for a update!
Was not able to connect a pressure gauge or a second temp sens, but here what happend:

Removed the stats and left harbour, alarm still sounds when running above appr. 3K ,quickly returned to idle,alarm turns off , a bit white smoke

Then ran with no stats and no poppet ,no alarm and no white smoke, heads much less warmer,less water out tell tale

Then ran with the stats but poppet still out,no alarm and no white smoke, still less water out tell tale

I suspect low water pressure not be able to press poppet valve, poppet parts looks good ,valve slides easily in the carrier.

I will buy a new impeller KIT, that I can get in one day delivery, poppet parts takes weeks.
Watertube will be inspected when changing the imp kit

Will keep you guys updated!

 

[Iceman66]

Time for a update!
Was not able to connect a pressure gauge or a second temp sens, but here`s what happend:

Removed the stats and left harbour, alarm still sounds when running above appr. 3K ,quickly returned to idle,alarm turns off , a bit white smoke

Then ran with no stats and no poppet ,no alarm and no white smoke, heads much less warmer,less water out tell tale

Then ran with the stats but poppet still out,no alarm and no white smoke, still less water out tell tale

I suspect low water pressure not be able to press poppet valve, poppet parts looks good ,valve slides easily in the carrier.
Have forgotten one thing: have always thought it takes a long time (appr 10 sek),from starting to water comes out tell tale.Normal?

I will buy a new impeller KIT, that I can get in one day delivery, poppet parts and stats takes weeks,but I will order those thing too..
Watertube will be inspected when changing the imp kit.

Will keep you guys updated!

 

[Iceman66]

Found the reason I guess, took the boat home with trailer,lower unit off, upper impeller housing off.
The f.....in 4 months old OEM 89984 impeller has almost totally loosen from its inner "bushing".
Have never seen that before.
The insert in impeller housing an the faceplate looks great with no wear.

A new impeller will be bought tomorrow.



Should I go for a new OEM, or a mallory/sierra?

 

[Dukedog]

OEM. Ya have a little better odds but not 100% there anymore.............Something I forgot ta mention when its coolin' parts. Sorry........

 

[Iceman66]

New impeller did the difference, no alarm, again am I a happy "seaman"
Thanks for all help "dukedog" and "sam",appreciate it a lot..

 

[sam am I]

You're very welcome.