165 IL6 Manifold Replacement (UPDATE)

FreeBeeTony

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Re: 165 IL6 Manifold Replacement (UPDATE)

It only runs this hot when under a load.....it cools down when at low RPM's (no wake zone) or at idle.<br /><br />The H/E is from a V8. I am having trouble understanding why I can't get it to run cooler. I am thinking this is the same set-up used for a V8 with FWC manifolds using the raw water pump in the outdrive. Is it because the manifold is so big? But on a V8 there are 2 manifolds creating heat!
 

Don S

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Re: 165 IL6 Manifold Replacement (UPDATE)

It only runs this hot when under a load.....it cools down when at low RPM's (no wake zone) or at idle.
And that proves my point exactly, you don't have enough cooling system to have it hooked up like that. Even the people you called said it will get too hot and crack. Maybe that's what happened to your first manifold.
 

Don S

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Re: 165 IL6 Manifold Replacement (UPDATE)

The H/E is from a V8. I am having trouble understanding why I can't get it to run cooler. I am thinking this is the same set-up used for a V8 with FWC manifolds using the raw water pump in the outdrive. Is it because the manifold is so big? But on a V8 there are 2 manifolds creating heat!
Several things cause the overheat.<br />First of all, the manifold is not supposed to be fresh water cooled. <br />On a V8, you have only 2 more cylinders, and 2 outlets for the raw water to exit the engine. With just the single riser, you can't get the water out of the engine fast enough. Also on a V8, if the manifolds are fresh water cooled, most have to have a larger raw water pump installed to produce enough water.<br />I don't know how you have your engine plumbed to that V8 heat exchanger, but if done improperly, that would also effect fresh water circulation.
 

FreeBeeTony

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Re: 165 IL6 Manifold Replacement (UPDATE)

I'm starting to think I may need to replumb and not FWC the manifold........<br /><br />I may try it this way, with the new manifold FWC'd....I am hoping the old one was partially clogged causing the overheat problem.
 

tommays

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Re: 165 IL6 Manifold Replacement (UPDATE)

tony<br />i dont recall reading about the results of haveing the heat exchanger cleaned out from the engine scale clogs ? how did that end up<br /><br />i am also wondering if you ran at 200+ deg a lot did the raw water side of the exchanger get any salt buildup??<br /><br />the manifolds main problem from reading the other posts about it seams to be that the walls are to thin to take the 14 psi from a closed system<br /><br /> i hydro test a lot of land based heat exchage stuff for saftey tests and most things have to be able to take a take at least doubble the normal pressure to be considered safe for use<br /><br />it sounds like the manifold walls mite inplode or explode if you pumped it up to 30 PSI<br /><br />tommays
 

FreeBeeTony

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Re: 165 IL6 Manifold Replacement (UPDATE)

I haven't cleaned the H/E yet........will do that in the spring (soon!) when I replace the manifold.<br /><br />Is 200* really a problem? I went to the boat show here on Long Island over the w/e and I was told the new Mercruiser I/O's are running at 180-190* raw water cooled! I thought that running warmer was more effieient.
 

Don S

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Re: 165 IL6 Manifold Replacement (UPDATE)

Tony.....Do what ever you want to do with your engine, I hate to tell you, but you do not have a brand new Mercruiser I/O. <br />Mercruiser quit using the IL6 engines over 20 years ago. <br />Run your manifold anyway you want, and when it cracks because of heat, don't blame anyone here or where you bought the manifold at.........You were warned.<br />Your new manifold isn't built so thin that it won't accept the pressure, hell, you could probably pressurize it to 100psi with no problmes. It's the hot and cold sections and how the manifold is designed that causes the problem. It's an intake and exhaust built into one. The V8's you referenced earlier have the exhaust completely seperate from the intake.<br />Oh, BTW, the last new Mercruiser I ran that had raw water cooling ran at 160° at WOT.
 

Dunaruna

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Re: 165 IL6 Manifold Replacement (UPDATE)

Tony, been following your progress with interest (has it been a year now?). If I remember correctly the size of your HE was an issue that bondo raised way back then - was that changed to your present V8 HE? <br /><br />I apologise if this has already been asked and answered.<br /><br />Aldo
 

tommays

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Re: 165 IL6 Manifold Replacement (UPDATE)

tony<br />the last thing i can think of is that you have a gen1 drive which has a pretty weak pump compared to and engine mounted one a normal full system would have<br /><br />tommays
 

FreeBeeTony

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Re: 165 IL6 Manifold Replacement (UPDATE)

DonS.....first let me say that I would never blame anyone on this board.....even if I took their advice.......the final decision is the owners. And I know very well what year the engine is and I understand that the V8's intake/exhaust manifolds are seperate.<br /><br />I think we should just end this post.....<br /><br />Thanks for everyones help/opinions.<br />I will report back on this subject when I put the boat in the water with the new manifold.
 

ziggy

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Re: 165 IL6 Manifold Replacement (UPDATE)

hi guys, i know ya want to end the post tony, lots of info,,, others are interested too though, like me, with my 165 open cooling. hope the new manifold does what ya want it to. but after reading all this twice, it don't sound good. i'm guessing you said it your self. gonna have to replumb and check that H/E. wonder if there's a capacity difference between the v8 & the il6? i'd think do it like the pic that dons posted. per oem. your just gonna have to live without the antifreeze going thru the manifold. the manifold will be on the open side. (no big deal from what i've been reading about manifolds being a routine maint item anyways) glad dons posted them pics. cuz i was not understanding when yoced said there was never oem closed cooling for the 165. dons, those pics look like they came right out of my clymers manual???? is that possible? ;) i got service manual #1 comeing, so will know the difference in a while. then i'll have both books. the more books the better. great posts guys. thinkin i'm learnin something,,,,,,
 

Bondo

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Re: 165 IL6 Manifold Replacement (UPDATE)

Hi Don,<br />Dunaruna is exactly right......<br />Tony started this project last year(the freshwater cooling anyway).......<br /><br />I think it may have been the year before that, That Tony Totally Rebuilt his engine........<br />And, He tore into his outdrive, without the Nessessary tools,+ gauges........(I'm still Amazed that the preloads must have come out pretty close, as He's put considerable hours on it)<br /><br />Now, I know that nessessity is the mother of invention.........<br />Then,.... There are Other Guys like Tony,+ Myself, who like to look at something,+ say,........ What If ??<br />Some of My "What Ifs" turn up at the Scrapyard............ :D <br />Others have,+ continue to provide Good Service.........<br /><br />This System is a Totally Self-Engineered......<br />Being such, Everything on it is a "Work-Around" engineered issue......<br />As stated, Sometimes it Works...... Sometimes Another "Work-around" is needed...... Sometimes, You're just SOL........... :( <br /><br />Relieing on My Memory(which is Very Poor), Tony's results last season were that he's running Fine at wake speeds......<br />It's when he approaches WOT, or at Higher speeds that he builds more heat than he'd like.....<br /><br />There's No Doubt that a Larger H/E would be a Help..... But, there Are Other avenues to Check as well.........<br /><br /><br /> I Believe , That this thread,+ others like it, Help people like Tony,+ Myself, to see Other Issues that we may have overlooked........<br />As stated above, yoced brought up the point,+ I see where it's Possible that there Might be an Air Pocket in the Manifold, due to the fact that Tony used an Endplate that's a copy of the endplate on the front of the manifold...... This had to be turned to point to the starboard-side..... So, It's Possible there Could Be a small air pocket left in the manifold, as the nipple opening is Slightly Below the Upper Most point in the manifold.....<br />Is It an Actual Issue ?? I don't know,...Maybe,.. Maybe Not......<br /><br /><br />Don, You raise many Valid Points......(and, I bow to Your Brilliance,... You've got Me Beat, By Many Times Over)<br />But, You've got to understand that this Isn't the usual iboats post from a Newbie Boater..........<br />What it Is,.... Is the Usual iboats Seat of the Pants Engineer's Questions about the Many "What Ifs" found in the Life of Backyard-Engineering Boaters...........<br /><br />You,+ I both Know that just because the "Book" says you Must remove A, B, C,+ D to Fix something.........<br />Many times a Good Wrench will remove A, B,+ D.. Then just slide C out of the way................................ :D
 

Don S

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Re: 165 IL6 Manifold Replacement (UPDATE)

Bondo<br />The fact that he is "building in" a problem is what I was hoping he wouldn't do. The cracking of his new manifold from getting too hot. Running the boat at 200+°, all problems he can avoid and actually make his boat run better. By just using something like Saltaway and flush the cooling system (Manifold & riser)will extend the manifold life.<br />Even after warnings from the people he bought the manifold from he is going to try it anyway.<br />The only thing that tells me, is that he is throwing away the money he spent for the manifold.<br />Read his first posts, he's replacing the manifold hoping to get the temp down, (hope he's replacing the riser also) when the problem is obvious why it's getting hot. <br />He could hook up the cooling system "By the Book", and it will probably work. All he has to do is have the engine run correctly at 180°, then start changing stuff, then if the temp goes up with the change, he knows it didn't work, or it will require something different. Like a larger GPM belt driven raw water pump that will increase the cooling capacity.
 

Bondo

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Re: 165 IL6 Manifold Replacement (UPDATE)

No Arguement at all Don........<br /><br />The Point of the excersize is to keep the manifold in freshwater.....<br />Taking the manifold Out of the loop Is 1 option...<br />A Larger Raw water pump is another option......<br />Finding a Bigger H/E is another......<br /><br />Just going back to Total Raw Water Cooling is Also yet Another Option.........<br /><br />When I decide to do a little Backyard Engineering, I Rarely get it Right the 1st Time........<br />But, Sometimes Failing is the Bigger Part of Learning......<br />
He could hook up the cooling system "By the Book", and it will probably work. All he has to do is have the engine run correctly at 180°, then start changing stuff, then if the temp goes up with the change, he knows it didn't work, or it will require something different.
No Doubt.......... <br />But, There's Always More Than 1 Way to Skin a Cat....................... ;)
 

Don S

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Re: 165 IL6 Manifold Replacement (UPDATE)

But, There's Always More Than 1 Way to Skin a Cat.......................
Or crack a brand new manifold. :D
 

trog100

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Re: 165 IL6 Manifold Replacement (UPDATE)

interesting thead.. but aluminium heads apart i cant see much point in doing any of this unless u can run antifreez thru the exhaust manifold.. thats the "rust out" bit aint it..<br /><br />i know its easier without but to me it kinda defeats the object of doing it in the first place.. unless i am looking at this from the completely wrong direction.. correct me if i am..??<br /><br />pump more antifreez around the engine bit.. pump more raw water thru the exchanger.. fit bigger exchanger or perhaps fit two of em inline.. it must be possible to keep the manifold and engine cool enough.. ???<br /><br />trog100
 

FreeBeeTony

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Re: 165 IL6 Manifold Replacement (UPDATE)

Got the new manifold today..........<br />The riser is only 1 yr old so I am not replacing it this year.<br />If the new manifold doesn't bring the temp down I will most likely replumb and bypass the manifold with the FWC..........I was really hoping to have a fully closed system.....and as bondo knows it wasn't easy to do........but if it don't work I gotta go to plan 'B'.<br /><br />I want to stress something here...mainly to DonS, I am not ignoring any advice or warnings...I have to satisfy my own curiosity.<br />I am fairly capable with a wrench (as bondo will atest to) and consider myself to be quite intelligent. I understand everything that has been said so far........and if it doesn't work I will understand why.
 

Don S

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Re: 165 IL6 Manifold Replacement (UPDATE)

What can I say Tony, Good Luck, hope it works out for you.
cheers.gif
 

FreeBeeTony

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Re: 165 IL6 Manifold Replacement (UPDATE)

Thanks Don.........I will report back when I try it under load........hopefully by flounder season!
 

FreeBeeTony

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Re: 165 IL6 Manifold Replacement (UPDATE)

Launched boat today.......ran at 3200RPM's and temp seemed steady at 180*........guess the new manifold and corrected raw water in/out did the trick.<br /><br />Outdrive still isn't shifting too well.......doesn't always go into gear right away.......Going to use it this way this season.....then teardown the lower next fall to check the clutch dog......might even replace the hole leg with one of those sterndrive units.
 
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