1957 Fastwin - Restoration consolidated

[jb93]

Re: 1957 Fastwin - Restoration consolidated

When the carb is rightside up as it would normally sit, you should be able to easily blow into the fuel inlet. If not, the needle is stuck in the seat.

Then you flip the carb upside down, and you should NOT be able to blow into the inlet. Here you are mimicking the float rising and the needle seating. If you can still easily blow in, the needle is not seating properly.

I know the manual will tell you to have the float perfectly horizontal. I dont do it quite like that. I like the unhinged end slightly higher, just a touch higher, to ensure that the needle seats properly and does not flood.

My money is on your explanation. The carb is spotless and I am getting nothing. I will try this and report back. When you say blow into it...do you mean with your mouth or with compressed air?

 

[jb93]

Re: 1957 Fastwin - Restoration consolidated

When the carb is rightside up as it would normally sit, you should be able to easily blow into the fuel inlet. If not, the needle is stuck in the seat.

Then you flip the carb upside down, and you should NOT be able to blow into the inlet. Here you are mimicking the float rising and the needle seating. If you can still easily blow in, the needle is not seating properly.

I know the manual will tell you to have the float perfectly horizontal. I dont do it quite like that. I like the unhinged end slightly higher, just a touch higher, to ensure that the needle seats properly and does not flood.

My needle is stuck. I cannot blow into fuel inlet with carb either normal or upside down. I pulled the new seat and needle out (with circlip) and reinstalled my old needle and seat. I also adjusted the float to your preferred tilt. Same problem.

How do I fix a stuck needle? As noted - both the new and old seat/needle combinations won't allow me to blow into carb fuel inlet with carb right side up.

 

[HighTrim]

Re: 1957 Fastwin - Restoration consolidated

There is some debris in the circuit possibly?? Spray carb cleaner or the like into the fuel inlet, does it pass through to the carb?

Does the needle have a black rubber tip, and have you installed the wire clip? Seems odd that it would stick if you have.

Can you post a pic of your carb before you reinstall the bowl?

 

[jb93]

Re: 1957 Fastwin - Restoration consolidated

There is some debris in the circuit possibly?? Spray carb cleaner or the like into the fuel inlet, does it pass through to the carb?

Does the needle have a black rubber tip, and have you installed the wire clip? Seems odd that it would stick if you have.

Can you post a pic of your carb before you reinstall the bowl?

I had installed the float upside down, so it was pressing the needle into the seat and keeping it closed. Flipped it over and air blew through it just as you described. Put it on the motor and presto whamo she cranked up and ran for a couple of minutes. No water pumping, so I shut her down. Head was a little hot. Dropped the lower unit after it cooled and the grommet on the impeller housing had folded over when I installed the l/u. It was blocking the tube. I think I got her this time, but too late for another test run. Have to try again tomorrow.

 

[jb93]

Re: 1957 Fastwin - Restoration consolidated

I lost spark on the top cylinder. I replaced the points and condenser, but not the coil. It had spark, got it running for a few minutes and then would not restart. Rechecked spark and found top cylinder no spark. Is there any way to test the coil easier than to just swap them and see if my spark moves?

 

[HighTrim]

Re: 1957 Fastwin - Restoration consolidated

Well unless you have the equipment to test them under load, like a Mercotronic no.

You can test the continuity of the primary and secondary. If either of those tests fail it is definately trash. Put your meter from the ground lead to the spark plug boot. You should get 3000 to 8000 ohms resistance. If one is shot, the secondary is likely it. It is long and thin wire.

The primary is almost always ok. Test it from the ground to the lead for the points. You should bury the needle.

I would guess if they are replaced, and not cracked, your points are dirty. They need to be spotless.

 

[HighTrim]

Re: 1957 Fastwin - Restoration consolidated

This will help

Testing an Outboard Coil with a Multimeter using an ignition coil from the Johnson H or T
Outboard Condenser Testing

 

[nwcove]

Re: 1957 Fastwin - Restoration consolidated

I lost spark on the top cylinder. I replaced the points and condenser, but not the coil. It had spark, got it running for a few minutes and then would not restart. Rechecked spark and found top cylinder no spark. Is there any way to test the coil easier than to just swap them and see if my spark moves?

hard to tell from your pic, but one of your coils is green, but the other looks ( from the colour) like an original ?? or maybe just a newer brown coil?

 

[jb93]

Re: 1957 Fastwin - Restoration consolidated

hard to tell from your pic, but one of your coils is green, but the other looks ( from the colour) like an original ?? or maybe just a newer brown coil?

The blue one is a brand new OMC coil. The green one was on the motor when I purchased it, but since it was newer style and not cracked I left it alone. It had spark then pooped out on me after first start up. I put the original coil - old blue coil on in place of the green one and got spark. I'm going to purchase another new coil tomorrow morning and see if that takes care of it. The points are brand new, but I will give them a good cleaning before I button her up. I'm going to remain positive here and say that I get a good test run this weekend. Hope she pumps water this time.

 

[Rick.]

Re: 1957 Fastwin - Restoration consolidated

Just wanted to say your doing a great job. Hard to believe it's the same motor. Very nice. I'm sure you will have many great runs with it. The more memorable runs are the ones that you will have grief with it. LOL. It's just the way it is. Best of luck. Rick.

 

[jb93]

Re: 1957 Fastwin - Restoration consolidated

I cleaned the points and sparking like a champ. Flywheel back on and cranked up after 6-8 pulls. No water pumping after 10-15 seconds run time so shut it down again. In my mind, I have one of four possibilities as to why not pumping. Listed below in order that I think is least to most probable.

1. Impeller is backwards - I triple checked this, so I feel like that is not my problem.

2. The water in my test tank is not deep enough. It is within 2-3" of the exhaust and all the way up to the bottom of the cover where the shift linkage connection is. See picture below.

3. I noticed that the metal pin that is inserted into the drive shaft drops all the way down to the very bottom of the channel cut into the impeller metal ID. Meaning...I am wondering if the drive shaft is dropping down a little too far. The pin is fully inside the metal ring, but right at the bottom. The lower unit is NOT original. Both my old lower unit and the replacement have the made on thrust washer on pinion gear. I have been told that some of the lower units had a separate washer under the pinion gear and some had a made on washer on the pinion gear. Both my original and the replacement lower units had pinion gears without washers. Still something that has me wondering.

4. There is something blocking my water way. When I had the head cover off, I blew compressed air up the water tube in the exhaust tube and air came out the water passages where the head cover mounts. I assumed that to be good enough. Is there something I can do to double check this...meaning drop the lower unit and shoot water up the water tube? If there is something lodged, where would it come out though????

Here is the pic of my test tank. Red line indicates water depth.

[/IMG]

 

[HighTrim]

Re: 1957 Fastwin - Restoration consolidated

You should have enough water as is. That is not your problem.

The impeller cannot really go in backwards. Even if it does, it will flip into the correct orientation. Not it.

Likely problems are the vent hole in housing not clear. Worn housing and plate. Air leak into housing. Intake blocked. Water passage blocked. Copper water line wedged against impeller housing grommet restricting flow.

What was the condition of housing and plate? I would reccomend dropping the gearcase again, and checking these things. I shoot compressed air, or water up the copper water line. You should feel it coming out the exhaust relief. Grease where the water line goes into the grommet as well to help keep it from kinking there.

If you can find a way to chuck the drive shaft while the lower unit is off, you can submerge it in water and spin the shaft to see if the pump is at fault. It should shoot water out of the top of the impeller housing.

 

[jb93]

Re: 1957 Fastwin - Restoration consolidated

You should have enough water as is. That is not your problem.

The impeller cannot really go in backwards. Even if it does, it will flip into the correct orientation. Not it.

Likely problems are the vent hole in housing not clear. Worn housing and plate. Air leak into housing. Intake blocked. Water passage blocked. Copper water line wedged against impeller housing grommet restricting flow.

What was the condition of housing and plate? I would reccomend dropping the gearcase again, and checking these things. I shoot compressed air, or water up the copper water line. You should feel it coming out the exhaust relief. Grease where the water line goes into the grommet as well to help keep it from kinking there.

If you can find a way to chuck the drive shaft while the lower unit is off, you can submerge it in water and spin the shaft to see if the pump is at fault. It should shoot water out of the top of the impeller housing.

Impeller housing looked "ok"...some wear and surface pitted a little. I polished it up inside with sandpaper.

Impeller plate is brand new.

No gasket between impeller plate and lower unit. I did not put any sealer on either side of the impeller plate - bottom or top. Should I?
I don't have any 3m 847. I do have Permatex Ultra Black gasket maker Gasket Makers : Permatex® Ultra Black® Maximum Oil Resistance RTV Silicone Gasket Maker and I also have OMC

Is the intake the 1" wide x 3-4" long plate with holes on the side of the lower unit or the wire mesh screen tube just above the prop?

I'll pull the l/u again and check everything. I can put sealant on the impeller plate...top or bottom though?? Again, there is no gasket on this unit...nor on the original lower unit.

 

[nwcove]

Re: 1957 Fastwin - Restoration consolidated

your water intake is both areas you mentioned. i would do as hightrim said and put the lower unit in a bucket and spin the ds with a drill to start trouble shooting . ( maybe put a piece of hose on the water pump outlet and aim it away from the drill tho)

 

[HighTrim]

Re: 1957 Fastwin - Restoration consolidated

Put sealer under the impeller plate if you take it back apart.

 

[jb93]

Re: 1957 Fastwin - Restoration consolidated

Houston....we have a problem. My brand new impeller plate is bent...actually dished. It is dished down toward the prop housing. How could this happen? It would take some pretty serious pressure to permanently deform an impeller plate. Oh boy. Here are the pics.

Does this speak to potential cause #3 from my post #71 or something that I cannot even begin to fathom?

[/IMG]

[/IMG]

 

[jb93]

Re: 1957 Fastwin - Restoration consolidated

The replacement lower unit does NOT have the phillips head screw at the lower that is a connection point for the shifting rod assembly. The old one did. Does that matter?

 

[HighTrim]

Re: 1957 Fastwin - Restoration consolidated

When you tightened the gearcase, did it push up flush, or did you use the screws to draw it up?

 

[jb93]

Re: 1957 Fastwin - Restoration consolidated

When you tightened the gearcase, did it push up flush, or did you use the screws to draw it up?

It pushed up easily to within 1/4 inch or less of flush without screws and then I did use the screws to tighten it down, but i was only using a 1/4" drive socket wrench...so not a big leverage tool. There was no resistance drawing it up that I can recall.

 

[HighTrim]

Re: 1957 Fastwin - Restoration consolidated

As a rule, you should be able to push it up first with one hand before tightening. If you need to use the bolts, something is wrong.

Did you put alot of grease on TOP of the drive shaft? There should be none there. I actually keeps if from going up believe it or not.

Looks like the pin pushed a dent in the plate, rendering the pump useless. The shaft is dropping too far into the pinion. I forget, did you have this one opened up?