1964 5 1/2 HP Johnson fuel delivery issue

[reelfishin]

I was given a 5 1/2 HP Johnson the other day, it was written off as junk. But when I gave it a pull, it felt good, so I checked the compression, it had 108/109 on each hole, I went through the carb, cleaned out the fuel lines, replaced those which were rotted, and gave it a try. The problem I am having is that it won't hold it's prime, no matter what tank I use.
When I realized what was going on, I dug out an older 3gallon tank which I know was good, and hooked that straight to the fuel line, it fired right up an runs great, but when I put the line back on the quick disconnect block and put a quick disconnect on the hose, it won't start. The problem seems to be in the connector block? It runs fine direct, won't run, or at least won't start through that block. It looks fine, no signs of cracks and the connector on the hose is new, (it works fine on my other motors too). If I pump the bulb repeatedly it will eventually start, then run fine till I shut it down again. With the line direct, it runs fine, both in the tank and on the water. It actually don't look like it's seen much use, the paint is mint, the power head isn't even dirty or discolored. It actually runs stronger than my newer 6 hp on my 12' V hull.

There's got to be something I'm overlooking with that block, I know the tank works on my other motors, and the only thing I changed is to reattach the QR block to the fuel system

 

[freddyray21]

Re: 1964 5 1/2 HP Johnson fuel delivery issue

sounds like an air leak in the connector to me.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: 1964 5 1/2 HP Johnson fuel delivery issue

air leak between fuel pump and tank, there are several connectors that look just alike, Suzuki is just one. these will work on some J/E motors, the opening and o rings are a different size than the J/E connector. if nothing else, just do a direct connection, with just a quick disconnect at the fuel tank.

 

[reelfishin]

Re: 1964 5 1/2 HP Johnson fuel delivery issue

The only thing I can figure is that there's a crack in the original connector, or something wrong inside. It looks different than my other motors, the pin is shorter with larger holes, but it looks untouched. My guess is that the motor gave someone the same trouble and just never got used.
Right now its run direct, the QR block on the motor mounts to the top of the handle just below the pan via an attached bracket, it's not just threaded in place. It looks specific to this model, so finding another one will most likely be tough, but I can make up a bracket and maybe use a newer or aftermarket replacement connector. The tank and fuel line connector are OEM original BRP, and work fine all my other motors, so the issue is at the motor. One thing I did notice is that the fuel line size on the motor connector is 3/8", yet all of the other fuel line nipples are 3/16".

 

[reelfishin]

Re: 1964 5 1/2 HP Johnson fuel delivery issue

I think I figured out whats going on with this, I ran it about 4 hours today, and it fought me to restart after about a half hour sitting. What I found was that its building up pressure between the fuel pump and the carb, as if the needle and seat won't open. If I remove the line from the fuel bowl, there's a huge amount of fuel pressure built up, far more than should be there with the engine not running. Pumping the bulb makes that worse.
I figured out the problem with the QR block, its got a huge 3/8" line nipple on it while the rest of the motor's fittings are only 3/16", when the line was forced over the large fitting it split on the underside where you can't see it.
I was running the motor today connected directly to a fuel tank.
I also did a compression test, it has 103 PSI on both cylinders.
I removed the carb, opened it up and found that the float has lost most all of it's varnish, it's flaking off and getting in the carb.

Where can I find a new float? The needle and seat look new, as do the gaskets. There are tap marks on the side of the carb where someone has been tapping it to unstick the float I guess. I blew out the carb real well and put it back together but it soon stuck again. The float for some reason is sticking in the up position.

Is there an online source for a new float?
Once I get the fuel system straightened out, this motor will see a lot of use.

 

[freddyray21]

Re: 1964 5 1/2 HP Johnson fuel delivery issue

http://www.laingsoutboards.com/newp...ncludes Gale, Sea King up to 1963, and others

 

[jbjennings]

Re: 1964 5 1/2 HP Johnson fuel delivery issue

My take on it:
1st: that motor has SUPER compression as you probably know.
2nd: You can get a new float and carb kit but will need to know the part #. I believe the best bet for a new plastic float is the OMC kit + the float. shop.evinrude.com is a good bet. I'd get a new needle and seat and make sure you put the little clip on it that attaches the needle to the float. You could also just dry the cork float out and reseal it but I personally like to use the plastic float and forget about it. If you look at the tip of your needle and it has a little groove worn in it, that could be your problem, but if it's sticking, a new set sure is a cheap fix.
Good luck,
JBJ

 

[reelfishin]

Re: 1964 5 1/2 HP Johnson fuel delivery issue

I was actually thinking it was a bit low but I'm more used to newer or larger motors. My 9.5hp has 141 on both, my 135 has 125 on all 4, give or take a pound or two.

The float has no clip for the needle, it just rides against it. The part that gets me is that when it sticks, it really sticks. I would think that the pressure created by pumping the bulb would blast the needle and seat open, the pressure that's in the bowl line is really high, it squirts all over when I pull the line to check. I'd say over 15 psi. Even blowing in that hose won't open the the needle and seat. But yet when I open the carb it looks fine and isn't grooved or stuck. I can only figure that it's jammed somehow. Since someone else has been in there, I may just look for another carb if I can find one. But I'll still need a kit for it.
I did try to float the float in water, and all looked fine. its not saturated but its definitely lost most of it's varnish or whatever they used to seal it with.
I don't figure this motor has had a lot of use, it's too clean looking. Its probably been sitting for decades in someone's garage.
When it runs, it runs strong.
The fuel pump also works really well, it will shoot fuel about 3' if I pull the cord with the line off, so there's no doubt it's got fuel. I just never saw one build that much pressure in the fuel line and not flood out the carb.

 

[jbjennings]

Re: 1964 5 1/2 HP Johnson fuel delivery issue

I would think either you have some varnish in there on the seat, or maybe the float is upside down and wedging the needle closed. You sound like you've done it many times before so I'm sure that's not the case, though. I'm suprised at your 140psi reading on your 9.5, and the 105 on your 5.5hp. I've never seen 105psi on a 5.5 or a 7.5, or a 10hp actually, but all my motors are from the 50's, although I do have a 64 18hp evinrude. It has 120-125psi on both. Either way, sounds like you have some good motors.
I'd make sure the float was the right side up, and if it still didn't work, a new seat and needle should take care of it. Those stainless needles without the clip usually last a long time, so I'd be kind of suprised if that was it. Varnish in the seat or upside down float is my vote.
Good luck,
Jbj

 

[reelfishin]

Re: 1964 5 1/2 HP Johnson fuel delivery issue

If the float was in upside down, then why would it run ok for a while then not start only sometimes. Often just pulling the bowl fuel line off and relieving the pressure will do the trick too.
The float had a definite wear patter from the needle on it too.
The way the float bracket is, if it were upside down, the needle would be always open? There would be a huge gap since the bracket comes off the top edge of the float.

I've got several other 5.5 carbs here but their older, for the 1959/60 style motors. The mixture needle is in the bowl not in the top half of the carb like on the '64.