1964 Johnson 9.5hp HELP!! NEED ADVICE

TarponFishin

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Dec 18, 2014
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Hello, This post is in reguards to my 1964 Johnson 9.5 Sea Horse. I attached a video and picture. When I get it running it has a small twitch to it. Also I keep seeing lots of oil when I run it at my house. Anyone have any ideas what is wrong here?

http://tinypic.com/r/2cpt891/8
 
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nwcove

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May 16, 2011
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any recent work done to it? the miss sounds a bit like a lean sneeze, but could be ignition. the oily mess in the tub is on par for barrel running. get it on the water and see how it works when its not injesting its own exhaust.
 

JRegier

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Aug 17, 2013
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136
Agree 100%. These motors have a tendency to suck up their own exhaust when running in a barrel and there's 4 potential spots where, even when you're running on the open water, could be leaking exhaust into the engine.

If you can't test it on the open water, get a fan of some kind to blow air over the motor to get rid of the exhaust fumes.
 

ddwilson

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Apr 8, 2012
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116
the twitch is usually a sign it is running a little bit lean, might get it on the water and fine tune the carb. should fix that. As for the oily mess that always happens when running in a small tank. As long as the mixture is right would not worry about that.
 

F_R

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Jul 7, 2006
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It isn't a 1964, is it? Model number please. Sounds to me like it is running on one cylinder with the other one hitting only occasionally. But at least get that hood off it while bucket running so it doesn't breathe it's own smoke. Then find out what's wrong with the cylinder that's cutting in and out.
 

EM2

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Aug 15, 2009
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I have the same model (9422s) with the same problem. I did a little work on mine today and readjusted the points (getting that flywheel off was a bear!). Even after properly setting the points and replacing the spark plugs (the old ones looked fine, nice brown color) it still had a miss at idle. Full speed is fine. I tried adjusting the idle mixture to absolutely no avail. So I wondered if I had an air leak so I got a can of wd40 (I use that instead of carb cleaner for 2 strokes) and shot tiny amounts around the carb. Not in the intake, but around the base and anywhere air could leak in under the throttle plate. What I found was that when I shot it at the throttle shaft at the aft end, the idle went down and smoothed out.

So I'm looking now for options on what to do. I haven't found any places that sell the seal. From what I gather, it's like some sort of soft washer? Any ideas on what seals the throttle shaft?
 

BigB9000

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Dec 5, 2007
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1,154
Interesting...
Can you take a picture of the are you're talking about, just so I'm clear.
 

EM2

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Aug 15, 2009
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Well, I was wrong. There is no seal there. I was looking at the diagram wrong. The soft washers are for the low speed needle. Apparently there is not a seal around the throttle shaft. So that's unfortunate. I pulled the top part of the carb off and checked the radial play and sure enough it's wobbly. So air is surely getting sucked in, probably disrupting the atomization and giving me a lean misfire. I'll go see if I can get a good pic. It's right at the back of the carb. There is a linkage at that end for the choke (which I haven't looked at too closely to verify this theory yet) but it's probably used for cracking the throttle open a little when on choke.
 

racerone

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Dec 28, 2013
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You can get that lean sneeze if throttle opens too early.-------Make sure throttle plate is fully CLOSED at idle.
 

EM2

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Aug 15, 2009
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Time for some numbers!

I am not a boat mechanic, nor am I an old school mechanic. I am a modern auto tech, so carburetors are not by any stretch my specialty. That being said, they are simple, but I don't know them like some guys do.

I got the throttle shaft out without issue. The first thing I notice is that the shaft is a silver color for the most part, and straight brass where it's been riding in the body of the carb. I assume it's probably nickel-plated brass, a good choice for its corrosion resistance. Its also worn down in those spots, as should be expected for a 50 year old carburetor. I pulled out the micrometer and measured the groove it made on the shaft vs the unworn spots. I'm getting about .003" difference. So I put it in the carb and affix a dial indicator to it and got a consistent .007" reading for radial play. So that means that the shaft wore down the aluminum a little more than the aluminum wore down the shaft. Here's where I have some research to do. How much play should it have then? I understand you have to have some clearance there in order for it to spin somewhat freely, so how much is enough? What I'm hoping is that it should be somewhere around .004". Then I could just replace the shaft and it should seal again... right? If not, I guess I'm going to have to get creative and figure out some kind of seal for that spot, which won't be easy. There's not much room to machine a groove for any size oring, and I don't know what else I could put there to stop the idle air leak.
 
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EM2

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Aug 15, 2009
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Something I have found is that some people have had luck with building the shaft up with solder, then machining it down. I don't have access to a machine shop, but with solder being as soft as it is, I couldn't imagine that throwing the shaft in a drill press and using a file would hurt the drill press bearings too bad. Now I just have to figure out what kind of solder to use and the best way to get it to stick to the throttle shaft. I'm not sure how long it will last though, so it's going to be a test. Nothing to lose, really. And if it works for a year or more then I'd consider it a success. Beats trying to buy a new carb.

I'm assuming that .004" of clearance is still going to be too much, so I'll probably have to make the shaft a little oversized in order for this to work. Another question I'm wondering about is if the bore is not round. If that's the case, then I'll have to carefully bore the hole out since I don't want to have it crooked.

If anyone has any info on brazing or soldering, feel free to chime in. I've been reading up and watching YouTube videos on it, but most of them are about soldering pipes together, or dissimilar metals. Most of my experience with soldering is for electronics, so not much in the area of torch soldering. And once when I did try it all I got was globs that I could pick off with my fingernail.

I really hope this helps the OP, and maybe some future searchers. Hope I'm not thread jacking here!
 

EM2

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Aug 15, 2009
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Alright OP, hope you've been reading up, because I have a solution (at least for MY lean sneeze).

So after watching several YouTube videos on brazing and soldering with lead free (brush-on flux solder), I decided to give it a go. I brushed the flux on after some rigorous cleaning with acetone and steel wool. I applied heat off to one side so I wouldn't burn the flux, but it still charred and oxidized the brass before I could get it hot enough to stick. And then it would puddle up and fall right off. Tried again, same thing. So what I ended up doing was heating the brass up, clean it off while hot, then apply flux (which still boiled) and while directly applying heat I applied the solder. You have to be quick, otherwise it'll oxidize the brass and the solder falls right off again.

I applied a very light coat, just enough to get coverage all around. I didn't measure it, since I knew it would be uneven. I chucked the shaft up in my drill press and used a medium file to knock down the high spots, then a small hobby file to smooth it out. First measurement was 0.235. Originally the worn down spot measured 0.215", so I added approximately 0.020" of solder (after getting the high spots knocked down). I decided to aim for 0.001" of clearance, so add 0.006" to 0.215" and I came up with 0.221". So away I went with the files and stopped every few minutes or so to see how far I got. Patience is an absolute must here. I stopped when the shaft got down to 0.222". I pulled out the polishing cloth and mirror-shined another 0.001" away. Exactly 0.001" of clearance.

I gave it a go in the bore and found that it was a little too tight. Turns, but not too freely. So I knocked it down another 0.001. Better, but not buttery smooth. Another 0.001 and it felt awesome! I could barely feel any wiggle in the shaft, and it rotated so much more smooth than before. I put it all back together and fired it up.

Here's where I found out something really interesting. The throttle stop on the back (it's a thumbscrew) adjusts the whole throttle linkage. So what that means is that it also moves the timing advance baseplate. As racerone said, if the throttle plate is not fully closed, you can get the lean sneeze. True, but there's more to it than that. That's assuming the baseplate timing is right. So what you end up having to do is back the screw on the forward end of the throttle shaft out and turn the linkage with the timing baseplate fully zeroed out. That way you can adjust the timing and throttle opening independently. Once that's dialed in, the lean sneeze went away completely.

Hope my endeavors have helped at least someone :)
 

racerone

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There is a mark on the throttle cam and that is where throttle is to start opening.-------A simple adjustment that is often mis-understood.
 
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