1965 33hp Evinrude water pump & rough running

[marrage councelor]

I have aquired a boat that had not been in the water since '97. I am a first time boat owner with some mechanical skills. I replaced fuel lines, put in barrel, started but did not see any water. I made a makeshift way to force water through cooling system. Started engine and it seemed to run okay, water flowed. I pulled lower end to look at water pump. There was milky oil around the pump area. And after stopping engine the seep hole drained out milky oil. I "assmume" the oil seals are bad. I am asking oil seeping out the hole is not normal and I do need to replace seals.
I pulled the lower end and hooked a water hose to the water tube and wanted to hear the engine run. It started to run rough and priming the bulb did not help. I pulled the carb (by way of starter) and in the carb bowl there was something like cork in pieces around the lower jet. So I am "assuming" that rebuilding carb is the next step.
#1. Water Pump kit / milky oil seeping out the weep hole is not normal and I do need to replace seals.
#2. Carb kit a must, but it seems orfice jets where cork seal and bowl drain plug are frozen in there. Any suggestions on safe removal, or just clean up the best I can.
Seems like some pretty sharp mechanics in this forum. I have learned a lot and gotten confidence in taking this on.
Steve

 

[kfa4303]

Re: 1965 33hp Evinrude water pump & rough running

Sound like you're on the right track councelor. I also have a 33hp all be it a '66, but they're very similar. Everything you've described is actually quite normal, especially if the motor has been siting for awhile. You can get a water pump and all the other bits you'll need right here at iboats. Impelers are about $15-$20 or so and there are plenty of instructions here, and vids on youtube, to show you how to do it. You're also on the right track about the carb. It will need a carb kit, which is about $25 or so and consists of new gaskets, float needle and packing for the hi/lo speed needles. However, you will probably have to buy a new, plastic, the float separately for about $3. For some reason not all carb kits come with a replacement float, but some do. Double check yours to be sure. As you well know the old cork floats can/do breakdown overtime (literally) especially with the amount of ethanol that is in modern gas. As for removing the needles safely, they should just back out all the way when you twist them counterclockwise, but if they're stiff, you can loosen the sleeve that they pass through first, which should help a bit. You can change the seals in the lower unit if you want, kits are about $25ish, but many folks are content just to change the oil a few times a season, assuming the leak isn't too bad. Gotta remember this motor is 50 years old, so a little leaking is to be expected. You can search here at iboats for all the various part numbers and kits, you can probably even buy most of them here too. Don't be afraid to tinker with these old motors. They're tough, logical and pretty simple once you get the basics down. Check out the "Reviving and Old Outboard" post here at the top of the forum. It will walk you through all the basics of breathing life back in to these old motors. Good luck. Keep us posted.

 

[marrage councelor]

Re: 1965 33hp Evinrude water pump & rough running

After trying to remove the high speed "nozzel" (needles came out fine) for the 3rd time this time "with vise grips :-( " to see how what I think is a gasket that seals the two halves for the high speed needle valve and nozzel I decided to carefully remove what I could of the remaining cork gasket. It just flaked off so I decided to make a gasket from left over 5/16 fuel line. I blew everything out with air and put it back together. I remember my dad working on small engines and it seemed the needle valve adjustment was to bottom it out and then back it out 1 1/2 turns. (Do you or anyone else know what the high and low speed adjustments are for these carbs?) I did this and put everything back together. I still have the gear case off but had disconnected my water hose. I was anxious to see if it would even run. It started up and sounded much better. I had worked all day and my after work "playshop pretend mechanic" activity I decided to call it a day. Tomorrow afternoon I will hook up water and see if I can get it to idle. THANK YOU SO MUCH. I WILL KEEP YOU POSTED!

 

[samo_ott]

Re: 1965 33hp Evinrude water pump & rough running

Don't use vice grips!!! Nothing should be that tight in a carb! Yes, there is a cork bushing that goes over the high speed nozzle that seals the two halves of the carb together. Personally I would not use a rubber pipe as I hate doing carb work so I make sure I do it right the first time (and I'm normally pretty cheap and lazy when it comes to repairs!) . And removing that starter and about 9 friggin bolts to hold it on? Not fun. I wouldn't wanna do it again if the rubber fuel line didn't work. Carb kits are dirt cheap. Get one! You'll never know now if it runs rough if it's the carb or the ignition. The idea is to fix one properly and move on to the other! I got a '69 33hp this fall and the exact same gasket had crumbled in mine also. I had a kit from an older 35 that was the same and I fixed it right up and it purred like a kitten afterwards. Photos attached from Nov.

 

[kfa4303]

Re: 1965 33hp Evinrude water pump & rough running

Hello again councelor. Glad you're having some luck getting her going again, but do be careful with the vice grips. As Samo said, nothing should be so tight on a carb that you should really need vise grips, so be careful. The brass needles and sleeves are relatively soft and can be damaged easily. I would also suggest a carb kit at the very least. They're cheap and not at all hard to install, and you'll learn a lot about your motor's carb and how they work. A tune up kit with points and condensers would be ideal too. I just put one in my old '61 and she runs better than ever and it was only $27. Ok, ok enough lecturing Glad you're having fun tinkering with the motor. She'll be running like a champ in no time. As you put her back together, be sure that your water tube is seated properly when you reinstall the lower end. It should stay seated in the top end of the motor first, and then seated on to the top of the water pump (impeller) housing as you reattach the lower unit. Be careful to make sure that all of the o-rings are also in good shape and are properly seated as well. Lots of folks reinstall the lower end, but the water tube doesn't seat in the water pump housing properly. As a result, little or no water reaches the engine, which in turn can cause it to overheat quickly. Here is a link from the forums about how to adjust and set up your carb and a more general one on getting these old gems up and running again. Keep us posted.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=167352

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=158086

 

[marrage councelor]

Re: 1965 33hp Evinrude water pump & rough running

Thank you, I will get the carb kit, I am going to try to modify a 1/2 wrench with torch to bend it at a 90 degree angle to slip around that friggin starter. Thanks for the advice. I really appreciate your words of wisdom.
Steve

 

[samo_ott]

Re: 1965 33hp Evinrude water pump & rough running

Thank you, I will get the carb kit, I am going to try to modify a 1/2 wrench with torch to bend it at a 90 degree angle to slip around that friggin starter. Thanks for the advice. I really appreciate your words of wisdom.
Steve

Lemme know if that works as that would save a lot of time. I hate removing the starters!

 

[marrage councelor]

Re: 1965 33hp Evinrude water pump & rough running

Forget modification of a wrench, it is just to tight of an area to get a wrench in there. Anyway I could not get the engine to run for any amount of time without hitting the choke. Couldn't even get away from switch to adjust carb. I tried backing out to get it richer but still could not get it to idle or stay running at any speed. So ordering carb kit (looks like it only has float needle, gaskets, and packing but will get it anyway),water pump impeller, Grommet for water tube, have not found a float... yet.

 

[F_R]

Re: 1965 33hp Evinrude water pump & rough running

About that starter bolt: If doing any kind of decent tune-up, a person would be checking the ignition first. That means flywheel removal. Once the flywheel is off, that bolt in the starter bracket is very accessable. Then you can get the carburetor off with ease. Did somebody mention doing it right the first time and be done with it??

About that milky stuff. Whoa!! That is not a seal leak!!! You put oil in the gas. Every drop of that oil goes through the engine when running. Oil in a two-stroke is used only once, then discharged. Some is burned (smoke) and the rest goes out the exhaust, where it is mixed with spent cooling water. That stuff you see is that oil that has done its job, emulsified with water. Also, it is completely normal for it to run out the drain hole.

BTW, I would think that your motor must have been pumping some water. There was water up in there to create that emulsion. Maybe not enough though.

 

[1946Zephyr]

Re: 1965 33hp Evinrude water pump & rough running

Yep, I second your motion Frank. Sometimes ignition problems will lead one to believe the carb is the culprit. It's the best place to start.
I like to completely disassemble the armeture plate assembly and clean things up entirely. If the coils are cracked, replace them. If you can, buy new spark plug leads. If you decide to keep the old ones, trim off 3/8" off the coil side and 1/4" off the spark plug end to make fresh new connections. Then of course, deal with your points and condensors. If the points look good, then just clean and re-gap them.

I have seen a huge difference in how a motor starts and performs, when the ignition system is up to snuff. To be honest with you, I have had good luck with these carbs and had several motors run good without even messin with them. A newer float is a good investment though, because of the cork in the old ones going bad. Just make sure the carb is clean.

About the water and oil issue: just make sure there isn't any milky appearance, in the oil inside the lower unit. The outside isn't as important. If you drain the lower unit and find milkshake, then you have bad seals. Oil, should always look like oil. An anitial oil change with new washers on both plugs is a good way to start and if you see milkshake after that, then the seals are shot.

 

[marrage councelor]

Re: 1965 33hp Evinrude water pump & rough running

I have my tail tucked between my leggs on this one. Do it right the first time, who me? I am looking at carb kit, tune up kit, waterpump kit "cheap version, I hope it includes the gromet", (I had a water hose hooked up directly to the water tube, I have the gear case group off), I drained the gear case and got chocolate colored oil-water so I am getting upper oil seal. I think the lower seal is an o ring. I now understand the weap hole and the gas/oil mixture which I think is a 50-1 mix? Did I tell you that this boat was given to me and my son-in-law, we split the cost on everything...Thanks guys, I'll keep you posted on progress. Going out to my shop, firing up the stove, it's snowing here today, gonna play with the boat.
P.S. I went to pull flywheel,
Found old post:25:1 fuel mix, Harmonic balance wheel puller, I know I have spark, how do you go about the 1/4 inch gap? If I have a good spark do I really need to get a tune up kit?

 

[marrage councelor]

Re: 1965 33hp Evinrude water pump & rough running

So I have been cleaning, repairing, waiting on parts. They came today. Water pump... I looked at the housing and found a lot of pitting, (don't know why I did not look at it to start with) I have cleaned it up quite a bit with a round piece of PVC pipe that was slightly smaller diameter. Still has pitting. Do I need to replace this or is some pitting acceptable?

 

[marrage councelor]

Re: 1965 33hp Evinrude water pump & rough running

So any thoughts on the water pump housing? Is it okay for some pitting?
I ordered a harmonic balance wheel puller and it did not come with the 2" x 1/4 #5 hard bolts. I had some bolts in the shop and used them but the fly wheel would not budge. I was using a short wrench to tighten it down but it seemed stuck, wd40 didn't help and I did not want to tap on it. Any suggestions on how much torque I should use?

 

[samo_ott]

Re: 1965 33hp Evinrude water pump & rough running

Due to others doing it on the forum I now use an impact gun on the big flywheels (33 & 40hp's) and it works great. As long as you got grade 5 bolts, let her rip!