1968 johnson 9.5 won't start

[NC Angler]

I acquired one of these bad boys about 5 years ago and it ran fine for a year or so then shoddy after that (missing when WOT) and eventually refused to fire up. I'll be honest, I was careless and didn't do any maintenance over the last few winters cause I just didn't think the thing was worth it in addition to being busy with graduate school. Now I've had a revelation and really have been dedicated to fixing this thing up to use on my boat this summer (and hopefully several more).

Thus far I have replaced fuel lines, disassembled carb and fuel pump and cleaned as well as replacing gaskets and float, checked compression (65# each), new plugs last year, calibrated timing plate, cleaned points and set at .02 (or close), and mixed fresh fuel 50:1. I also changed the gear oil and oh yea, the coils and condensers look very fresh but I haven't tested the charge.

The motor runs about 3 seconds tops with starter fluid. I sprayed seafoam into the cylinders and they smoke heavy in the few seconds it idles.

My main question is about the carb. I cleaned in all the orifices and blew them with compressed air. Is it imperative to remove the high speed jet and welch plug to do a thorough cleaning and does a clogged carb sound like the culprit? It was filthy with quite a bit of tar when i pulled it.

Any help will be extremely appreciated as I would love to bring this thing back to life.

 

[racerone]

The high speed jet MUST BE CLEAN on these.---It is likely plugged with that tar substance !

 

[gm280]

:welcome: aboard NC Angler. Nice for you to join us here at iboats...

Okay, let's see what you have. From your statement it sound like a fuel delivery system problem. And that is where I would start first. You stated that you removed the carb and disassembled it. But did you clean it out with carb spray or soak it in a carb cleaning solution? And did you install a new carb kit as well? I would buy a carb kit and redo the carb first. Remove the fuel line to the carb and see if you have fuel pumping to the carb. It could be a fuel pump not working. And make sure all the fuel lines are new and not deteriorating from the inside out. One other very important thing as well. NEVER EVER use starter fluid to try and start a 2 cycle OB engine. WHY? Because starter fluid has ZERO lube or oil in it and the engine doesn't start with any lubricant to protect the bearings and rings and such. It actually washes out all the oil that was in there as well. So you are running your OB totally dry without any oils... Extremely bad for the engine. So mix up a 50:1 fuel mixture and squirt some of that in the carb to try and start it from now on... I hope this helps you out some. Post your results and let us know how it works out...

 

[NC Angler]

The high speed jet MUST BE CLEAN on these.---It is likely plugged with that tar substance !

Any tips on removing it? Is it best to purchase the too? I tried a very small flathead but am wary to keep trying- I don't want to destroy it.

 

[NC Angler]

Gm, thanks a lot man it's good to be here and appreciate your response. Ok no more starter fluid I did make a premix and sprayed it periodically while trying starter fluid to keep everything lubed. I soaked the carb housing in gumout for several hours is gat the same ingredient as carb cleaner in the large can? And no kit, I just replaced gaskets and float. What else comes in the kit? All hoses are new.

 

[NC Angler]

Bump. Is soaking in carb cleaner the same as soaking in gumout or is there a difference in ingredients? And could the impeller cause poor starting?

 

[NC Angler]

Oh and if the kill switch is "stuck" would separating the connections be ok to troubleshoot the problem or would I need to disconnect the wires from the armature plate?

 

[NC Angler]

Ok pulled the carb again and cleaned even more gunk from behind the seating screw for the needle. Took all plastic parts off (cracked one of the old frail snap pieces) and soaked in Berryman cleaner for about 6 hours. Blew everything out with air and reassembled. Attempted to remove the high speed jet and stripped the brass a bit so I left it alone.

Sprayed a little seafoam in all orifices to lube. Still won't start. A little carb cleaner in the carb makes it run about 2-3 seconds. It seems like its kicking into gear on some attempts it jerks very hard. When tearing the motor down I loosened to had trouble getting the shaft back in place... Had to turn the prop and seemed to slide back up enough to screw the lower unit back in place. Could I have mucked up the gear seating? Would that cause it to shut off after a few seconds? This is my first project with any kind of motor and all advice is greatly appreciated

 

[NC Angler]

Ok I got the new high speed jet and some other parts. The lower carb body had about 2 inches of dried gas (like chalk) sitting in it and was finally able to get it out. The thing starts like a champ but moves slow. I've fiddled with the idle adjustment and slow idle adjustment on the tiller handle. Runs about 60% speed it used to. Is there something simple I'm missing??

 

[racerone]

The motor is likely running on one cylinder.-Does spark jump a gap of 1/4" or more, yes or no ?----These motors are famous for cracked coils.---Pull the flywheel and inspect them----It will have 2 newer coils or it needs them.

 

[NC Angler]

The coils look real new, no cracks or signs of age. How do I go about testing the spark?

 

[NC Angler]

And if there is weak/no spark, what am I looking to fix?

 

[racerone]

You take a piece of plywood and staple / glue 2 pieces of wire onto it.----Make it so gap between wires is 1/4"---Stick one end in the sparkplug boot.--Put the other end to a ground on the motor.---Pull the starter cord with plugs out.--See if spark jumps that gap.

 

[NC Angler]

Thanks a lot racer I'll try that. If it doesn't jump the gap then what's that indicate? Need a new coil? If I replace one should both be replaced and how do I get the word to stay in the boot?

 

[NC Angler]

Ok I tested the spark in both cylinders. Fired it up first and pulled the boot off the top plug... motor kept idling fine. Replaced the boot and pulled the boot off the bottom cylinder.. Motor died. This would indicate the top cylinder (or spark plug) is misfiring right? So I switched the plugs and the same thing happened- pull the bottom boot and the motor died, pulled top boot and the motor kept running. Also put and spark tester on each and got a bright red light with the bottom cylinder and NO light at all with the top.

So... what is the next step? Would you guys recommend a thorough diagnostic testing of all the components of the magneto group? To see if the high tension lead is bad for the top cylinder or to rule out the coils/condensers, or would you just replace the points and condensers and leave the coils?? The coils look fresh, no cracks that i can see. I can post a picture if necessary

 

[cajuncook1]

Compression = Always start with checking compression.
Spark = you need to check spark on both cylinders. (you should be able to jump gap of at least 1/4 inch)
Fuel delivery = carburetor cleaned properly and correct settings.


Here is a bunch of information that you can read and do the repairs yourself and know what is going on.

Here is some information that will help you evaluate your ignition system with the flywheel popped off.


If you don't have a harmonic balance flywheel puller, you can make a flywheel knocker tool. One of our many distinguished member put this tutorial together on how use and make a flywheel knocker to safely remove a flywheel. I have tried and it workings well. I have both the flywheel knocker and harmonic balance flywheel remover.

Anyway here is the Flywheel knocker tool link.

http://www.aomci.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/Y...num=1309393684


Your going to need to inspect your point, condenser and coils. They are located under the flywheel. Hopefully all you need to do is clean and regap your points and you might be in business. Still check your coils and condensers and plug wires.






Here are two link to show you how to test your coils and condensers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT8rk5QWgS0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6eSXYmENDY




How to replace your coils, points and condenser. Please take digital pictures as you go, so it will help you return everything back in the right order. Keep cheap zip lock bags available to put your parts in so you don't lose them. They are small.


Here is a diagram of a generic OMC (Johnson/Evinrudle/Gale) ignition assembly. You will have to remove the coil designated for the top cylinder and put the oil wicker in. It should be already be coated with a very light oil. (not grease). The purpose of the oil wicker is to lightly lubricate the outside riding surface of the cam so the point shoes do not prematurely wear. If you look at the points they have little shoes that ride along the cam. Please make sure the (breaker)points cam is on the correct side or the ignition will be out of timing. It should have the word [highlight]top[/highlight] machine written on the side facing up.

FYI: You can only set(gap) one set of points at a time. Put the flywheel nut back on(turn with a wrench or ratchet clockwise) to allow you turn the crankshaft. (Please remove both spark plugs to make it easier to turn the crankshaft and prevent accidental starting)

You gap the point to 0.020 when the point shoes is at the top(high point of the cam). It should have a mark along with the word top. Then you will turn clockwise to the next set of point 180 degrees and set those points the same way. You will notice that the point of the previous set will be closed and when you come around again they will open up. *** When they are open no current is allow through. This is how you set your timing with the points.***

When you go to set the point's gap. Very gently snug the anchor screw, then adjust the gap with adjusting screw and the feeler gauge until the feeler gauge is sliding through with slight resistance only. Then tighten the anchor screw. Repeat procedure with second set of points. Please make sure your hands are clean and the feeler gauge is clean, because oil on the points can foul them up and create resistance....poor or no no spark. ALways use a spark check to evaluate spark. It should jump minimum 1/4 inch. Blue sharp snappy spark.

Here is a picture of a spark check...Cheap $6

Here is a picture of how to tell which wire is going to the correct cylinder. Thanks to Garry for providing the picture on other post.

If your using the existing wires then cut about 1/4 inch of end going the coil, so you have clean un-oxidized copper contacting the spiking in the coil. Twist the end of the spark plug wire onto the coil spike. If you have replaced the wires, make sure they are 7mm copper metal core and not the automobile stuff.

***** Please make sure two things*****

1.) Make sure all the wires are tucked away under the flywheel and not rubbing up against the cam or crank, because with will eventually get damage and create a short, then no spark!!

2.) Make sure the coil heels (ends) are evenly lined up with the mounting boss.

Here are some pictures. (Compliments of JBJennings..nice fella)

Lining up the coil heel with the mounting boss prevent damage of the coils and the flywheel magnet, prevent rubbing as the flywheel turns.

[highlight]*** Make sure the throttle is advanced to that start position***[/highlight]


Here is another picture that Garry (thanks Garry!!) supplied on another post with some modification.

Both diagrams, should answer your questions.




Here is some you tube videos that can help you diagnosis and properly setting your ignition.

Here a bunch of videos that can help you along. They are long and detailed, but I purposely made them that way, so someone new to motors would feel comfortable. So, I apologize if they are boring. I originally made those videos to help a guy who had little mechanic knowledge.

Here is a link on how to remove a flywheel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nz1st4XnsX4


Here is a bunch of links to evaluate and repair your ignition

If your looking for a help cleaning your points and testing your ignition, then here are some YouTube videos that can help.

Not professional videos, but they can help guide you through ignition diagnostics and repair. The motor in the video is a 1968 Johnson 6hp.

Hopefully will give you a visual and help you some.

Evinrude Gale and Johnson ignition video 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTN8Ag_aj-8

Evinrude Gale and Johnson ignition video 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7A6d8me0Gw

Evinrude Gale and Johnson ignition video 3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAlT32NnTJ0

Evinrude Gale and Johnson ignition video 4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=re6FgcB_Yok

Evinrude Gale and Johnson ignition video 5

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClGt6xHnb94

Evinrude Gale and Johnson ignition video 6

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taaSzp1Ev-0

Evinrude Gale and Johnson ignition video 7

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7w0xW48YCU

 

[cajuncook1]

Here is the part number for the carburetor kit for your motor. There is no Sierra or aftermarket kit. Only OMC kit availabel for the this motor.


Carburetor kit part number = 382048

Do not use a wire to clean out the high speed fix jet . Remove it and soak it and blow it out with compressed air.

Use an Extra Clearance Slotted insert Bit to safely remove the fix jet.

1/4" Hex Shank, 3/16" tip width, 1 1/2" length will easily remove the high speed fix jet


Information originally supplied by Joe Reeves

Carburetor Adjustment for idle/low speed needle. Your carburetor has a high speed fix jet, so no adjustment. It just needs to stay clean.


Initial setting is: Slow speed = seat gently(turn in clockwise), then open 1-1/2 turns(turn out counter clockwise). Do not tighten or force the slow idle needle shut or it may damage the needle.

Start engine and set the rpms to where it just stays running. In segments of 1/8 turns, start to turn the S/S needle valve in (clockwise). Wait a few seconds (10 to 15 sec) for the engine to respond. As you turn the valve in(clockwise), the rpms will increase. Lower the rpms again (turn your throttle slightly slower) to where the engine will just stay running.

Eventually you'll hit the point where the engine wants to die out or it will spit back (sounds like a mild backfire). At that point, back out(turn out counter clockwise) the valve 1/4 turn. Within that 1/4 turn, you'll find the smoothest slow speed setting.

When you have finished the above adjustment, you will have no reason to move them again unless the carburetor fouls/gums up from sitting, in which case you would be required to remove, clean, and rebuild the carburetor anyway.

 

[cajuncook1]

 

[NC Angler]

Thanks cajuncook, I tested compression awhile back. 65# each cylinder. Rebuilt the carb (had to replace the stripped high speed jet as well), fuel pump cleaned thoroughly, replaced all hoses, and have already been under the flywheel to clean and set the points (per your video on youtube).

I watched a bunch of your videos on youtube actually- very helpful! And very detailed which is a good thing in my opinion. They helped me a lot, thanks.

So should I follow the steps in your video about diagnosing the coils/wires/condensers using the volt meter?? And does anyone know how to change the killswitch? The rubber fell off mine so I have another.. just want to keep the same wires but change the actual switch. Thanks

 

[NC Angler]

Also, in your post it talks about setting the slow speed mix... can I do that idling in a trash can or do I need to be in forward out on the water?