1968 johnson 9.5 won't start

[bspeth]

You can get it very close in a tank,but to hit the sweet spot you need to be on the water(fishin).

 

[NC Angler]

Cajuncook, Im not sure what to do now...

I followed every step of your ignition video on youtube in isolating the problem with the weak spark. By using the spark tester, I thought I singled out the top cylinder as the weak link. So upon inspection of the armature plate, using a multimeter, I tested the primary windings and secondary windings of both coils as well as the continuity from one end of each wire to the other. EVERYTHING moved the needle. What is the next step in diagnosing this thing?? Should I suspect condensers or points? How do I test them... or should I just order a new set? Thanks so much

 

[racerone]

Plug wires are known to crack at the sharp bend where they come out of the magplate.----Coils are known to burn through and short to to the magplate.----Easy to find these faults with a MERC-O-TRONIC magneto analyzer.---But you don't have one so a visual inspection of the bottom of the coils can be done.--Inspect plug wires at the bend.

 

[cajuncook1]

NC Angler,

You stated that you tested the coils primary and secondary windings correct? The primary winding should have caused the analog needle to go all the way across the screen in to infinity. Testing the secondary winding resistance should have produced a reading around 5, 6 or 7K resistance.

racerone, brought up a good point. Please inspect your spark plug wires for cracks or frays. Inspect the coils for splits or cracks. Make sure your wires are tucked away under the flywheel, so they do not get damaged and create a short. Make sure the coil heels are lined up with the mag plate boss so there is no rubbing of heels against the flywheel magnets. Please make sure those points are shiny clean. Take them off and clean them individually with fine sand paper and a flat surface. Be careful removing the little horse shoe clips holding the points down, they like to fly across the garage and get lost. All mentioned can lead to a short(grounding) and produce a weak to no spark issue.

Without a Mercotronic or Stevens ignition tester it is very hard to tell if the condensers are bad or leaking. If in doubt or continued electric issues then order a new set of points and condensers. Cheap enough here at iboats. I have to say they are reasonable with there prices.

If you have to replace the spark plug wires, use 7mm copper core wires and not the automobile stuff. You can get 7mm copper core wires at tractor shops, Napa, Autozone, or even lawn mower shops. Make sure they are twisted snug on the coil's spike.

Look at your ignition cam and make sure it is right side up and that there is no play or slop when it is securely in place. A damaged key way or damage flywheel key can cause a loose or slop movement of the cam when turning and thus effect your timing.

You can try to start the motor in a dark garage and look for arching coming from the plug wire to see if they are shorting out on your ignition.

Hey, ignition problems can cause some set backs even with experienced guys. Not uncommon, to have to go back and reinspect and recheck work to find a simple mistake or over looked issue.

***Disconnect your kill switch wires from the clips below the magneto plate, so they are not effecting a spark by shorting out your ignition.


Here is a you tube video of a guy checking out a bad kill switch. Now the motor he is testing is 9.9hp Evinrude motor that had CDI ignition, but I want you to focus on is his technique of testing and replacing the kill switch and not the testing the cdi connection. Your kill wires go to each set of points and condensers.

You tube video link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nga7zTMM1dI








Here is a picture of correct wire placement under the flywheel.

 

[NC Angler]

Plug wires are known to crack at the sharp bend where they come out of the magplate.----Coils are known to burn through and short to to the magplate.----Easy to find these faults with a MERC-O-TRONIC magneto analyzer.---But you don't have one so a visual inspection of the bottom of the coils can be done.--Inspect plug wires at the bend.

Yep, plug wires are split at the bend but I still got the 6K reading when testing them like cajuncook said. I'm gonna go ahead and replace the wires with the 7mm copper.

 

[NC Angler]

Cajuncook, coil heels are flush on the boss, cam is tight, and I wet sanded and cleaned the points with an index card til shiny. I'm gonna set the points to .02 and watch that video. Will try to get the new plug wires today and see if it changes anything. If no difference I'll go ahead and get a new set of points and condensers. Thanks so much for the info guys I tell yah it's been super helpful to a novice at this

 

[racerone]

Wire core plug wires should show just about 0 ohm resistance !

 

[NC Angler]

Wire core plug wires should show just about 0 ohm resistance !

When I tested the plug wires (as shown in cajuncook's video) I stuck the negative lead in the boot of the plug wire and the positive lead in the end that the coil spike touches and got about 5-6K reading. Is this not right?

I did see spark near the cam under the flywheel the other night when I was running the motor in the dark. Im guessing that was not normal and probably coming from the area where the wires are split under the armature plate? Am I losing spark at this area and thus not getting the one cylinder to fire?

On another note, I checked NAPA, Autozone, advance auto, and a lawnmower/hardware store and none of them have copper spark plug wire. I guess Ill need to order the OEM leads

 

[racerone]

I ordered 20 feet of wire core plug lead at my BRP dealer.---It was no mystery too them.----Had it in stock.---Does not need to be copper core, just wire core !!!

 

[NC Angler]

OK so the "carbon" wire they have will be fine?? They all told me they don't know if copper is even used anymore

 

[cajuncook1]

Wire core plug wires should show just about 0 ohm resistance !

I believe NC Angler readings are from the coils ground wire to end of the spark plug wire, so the analog meter reading is a result of the resistance through the secondary winding. If the reading were through the just spark plug wire then yes, it would complete the circuit and reading would result all the way to right to infinity.

 

[NC Angler]

I believe NC Angler readings are from the coils ground wire to end of the spark plug wire, so the analog meter reading is a result of the resistance through the secondary winding. If the reading were through the just spark plug wire then yes, it would complete the circuit and reading would result all the way to right to infinity.

Im sorry, thats what i meant. It did spike the needle when I measured the plug wire. The secondary winding was only about 6K. I guess i still need to replace the wires (the rubber insulation has split open on both wires).

 

[NC Angler]

NC Angler,



***Disconnect your kill switch wires from the clips below the magneto plate, so they are not effecting a spark by shorting out your ignition.


Here is a you tube video of a guy checking out a bad kill switch. Now the motor he is testing is 9.9hp Evinrude motor that had CDI ignition, but I want you to focus on is his technique of testing and replacing the kill switch and not the testing the cdi connection. Your kill wires go to each set of points and condensers.

You tube video link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nga7zTMM1dI

Thanks Cook, I have been testing the motor with those unplugged because ive read they can be faulty and ground out the motor. And thanks for posting the video i need to replace the killswitch, i was out on the lake testing the motor and the switch will not kill the motor! had to pull the gas hose and choke of the intake to kill the motor.... so thats the next step after the ignition lol

 

[NC Angler]

I ordered 20 feet of wire core plug lead at my BRP dealer.---It was no mystery too them.----Had it in stock.---Does not need to be copper core, just wire core !!!

OK so the "carbon" wire they have will be fine?? They all told me they don't know if copper is even used anymore

 

[pro-crastinator]

[h=1]DO not use carbon core wires
Spark Plug Wire Set, Ford 8N12259[/h] I like these because of the boots. They are at 90 degrees, not straight.
Copper core.
Use 2 and and you got 2 spares.

http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/spark-plug-wire-set-ford-8n12259

 

[racerone]

????-----Do not use carbon core wires.---Does not need to be copper core !!---You are talking to the wrong people !!!--Plug wires with a metal wire core are found at most MARINE dealers.----These kids at the automotive stores just do not know anything other than what their computer screen tells them !

 

[cajuncook1]

OK so the "carbon" wire they have will be fine?? They all told me they don't know if copper is even used anymore

Please do not use the carbon wire. The antique and vintage motors do best with the copper core wire. Yes copper core wire is stilling being sold and used. Some of those guys behind the counter don't know squat, just part numbers. I have certainly purchased copper core wire at NAPA.

 

[cajuncook1]

[h=1]DO not use carbon core wires
Spark Plug Wire Set, Ford 8N12259[/h] I like these because of the boots. They are at 90 degrees, not straight.
Copper core.
Use 2 and and you got 2 spares.

http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/spark-plug-wire-set-ford-8n12259

Pro- crastinator made excellent suggestion. I have used those wires before and they work great. Some local auto parts place should have the copper core wires for you to purchase.

Here is a link to a ebay sale of copper core wire that will fit your needs as well.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Spark-Plug-...075?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43ca88702b



You made comment that you saw spark under your flywheel and that you have split wires is extremely suggestive that your ignition is shorting out and you need to replace those spark plug wires. It is true that disconnecting your kill switch wires can help rule out ignition problems due to a shorting kill switch.

I think after you replace your spark plug wire and your broken kill switch you should be good to go ignition wise. After you replace the spark plug wires then go back and recheck everything ignition wise and button things up.


Your getting there buddy!!

Cheers

David T.

 

[NC Angler]

Ok Cook, I got the wires off ebay you posted and installed them. Set the points again and put the armature plate and flywheel back on. I test ran the motor in a barrel before taking it out to the lake just to be sure it fired up ok. Had the spark plugs connected to the wrong cylinder at first and the motor made a popping noise when I tried to start it. Switched the plugs over and it fired up and was VERY high RPM while in idle- not sure why.

Took it out to the lake and ran it in gear... It opened up quite a bit more than before I changed the wires, I felt a lot of added power and speed for about 5 seconds of WOT, but right before I thought i was gonna plane out, the thing knocked out of gear into neutral and reved up sounded like it was gonna blow. After that it never got up to that same speed the whole day (albeit still noticeably faster than before the new wires). So I'm pretty sure i'm running on 2 cylinders but what could have happened here? My boat is a modified jon to bass boat and I used quite a bit of wood so the boat is pretty heavy, but i still feel i'm not getting 100% power from this 9.5.

Also, I see a lot of gas/oil floating in the water when I'm pulling the rope. Most of the time it starts up on first pull but if I have to pull 4 or 5 times i see circles of gas/oil coming to the surface.. (is this normal?)

What should I be looking at next? I really appreciate all the help as this thing hasn't run this good in 5 years, hopefully I can get a little more speed out of it through your guys knowledge and experience

 

[Tim Frank]

I believe NC Angler readings are from the coils ground wire to end of the spark plug wire, so the analog meter reading is a result of the resistance through the secondary winding. If the reading were through the just spark plug wire then yes, it would complete the circuit and reading would result all the way to right to infinity.

Depends on your meter, but most all that I've seen have full scale deflection reading of Zero ohms, i.e. continuity...."infinity" is an open circuit.