1985 125hp tilt/trim slowly drops down while in water

[erosenwinkel]

1985 125 hp tilt/trim consistently needs to be lifted up in the water to keep the motor at the proper running height. I don't see any leaking on my garage floor or does it leak internally thus losing pressure. When I add fluid should the moter be tilted up or should it be down like its in the water. I have been using Pennzoil trim and tilt oil, the correct stuff or is there a mosre cost effective substitute? Thanks.

 

[TMALEGA]

Re: 1985 125hp tilt/trim slowly drops down while in water

I am not 100% sure on this answer but i believe a slow leak down like you are describing is the valve body. From what i have read the options are that you have it rebuilt or learn to deal with it. I have heard you can get new ones but they arent worth anything over the 50 hp range. I may and am most likely wrong on this but if i am not i hope it helps out. From what i have read rebuilding the valve body is not something you should attempt on your own as a dyi project. It can be frustrating and difficult for a first timer. Others may chime in and offer some assistance but if memory serves this is all correct answers.

 

[RRitt]

Re: 1985 125hp tilt/trim slowly drops down while in water

yup pretty much like tmalega says. except i think the new ones probably go up to 85Hp without any concern. the higher you go after that then the shorter it's going to last. I think you'll get 3 years (maybe more) out of a new one even on a 150HP. As the HP gets smaller there is less internal stress and the unit would last longer and longer. Once you get down to 90hp I wouldn't be surprised to see one last 6-10 years.

valve body rebuild is a terrible DIY for the average home mechanic. It's just too nitpicky of a device with too many little things to watch out for. If you decide to take it on, then work over a towel and go slow so that no parts pop out and/or roll away.

 

[erosenwinkel]

Re: 1985 125hp tilt/trim slowly drops down while in water

I have a used trim/tilt from an 89 125hp sitting in the corner just waiting for something like this to happen. What is the actual part that is bad or in need of repair? Is it the large beer can looking thingy (what a description, huh?) that I have been adding the fluid to? Where does the fluid go to? It doesn't seem to be externally leaking that I can detect. I am in Illinois farm country, land of hydraulics for farm machinery. Do you think it would be possible to find a shop that would tackle such a repair or wouldn't you recommend it? Are parts out there or are the parts specific to this valve body? Lot of questions I know, but it is starting to fall pretty quick, been adding fluid every hour or so. Thanks, Eric

 

[RRitt]

Re: 1985 125hp tilt/trim slowly drops down while in water

If the system in corner has the same electric motor then you can just swap the valve body. The valve body is part #19 in the attached link.
http://www.boats.net/images/diagrams/Merc2/COMMON//30459.png

If the electric motor is different then you will need to swap the the entire pump assembly. Otherwise the valve body might not be compatible with your motor.

A local hydraulics shop should have no problems rebuilding your ram. I doubt they can do the valve body. The parts are not documented and many of them are smaller than normal stock. Unless they give their time away for free it will end up costing too much. You would be better off either getting your spare rebuilt or buying a new Taiwan model every few years. try ebay, amazon, googleshop.

 

[erosenwinkel]

Re: 1985 125hp tilt/trim slowly drops down while in water

Does the rebuild guy in Cape Coral , FL do a good job for the 100 bucks? Do you know of any other places that provide rebuild service? Thanks for the help!

 

[RRitt]

Re: 1985 125hp tilt/trim slowly drops down while in water

lol, that's me. i try to do the best I can.

 

[TMALEGA]

Re: 1985 125hp tilt/trim slowly drops down while in water

I had a great experience with him, he however probably got tired of my ocd kicking in. He was honest and upfront with me on the whole thing anything else i have in need of rebuild from my tilt and trim system is heading to him. Assuming he will deal with me again. Highest reccomendations for his work.

 

[erosenwinkel]

Re: 1985 125hp tilt/trim slowly drops down while in water

Thanks for the recommendation. Was your "pump" physically leaking fluid externally or just falling slowly in the water? Mine doesn't seem to dripping fluid although I have to add every couple of hours to make it work. It has to be going somewhere, I just don't know where. I don't want to send my valve body to Florida, get it back, install it and then still have the same problem and also have a lighter wallet. I really didn't have too much of a problem until I went with the Marine tilt/trim oil and put that in. Maybe if I put something a little heavier in there my problem would be solved (albeit, probably temporarily). I will submit a separate post regarding a different viscosity fluid.

 

[RRitt]

Re: 1985 125hp tilt/trim slowly drops down while in water

Thanks for the recommendation. Was your "pump" physically leaking fluid externally or just falling slowly in the water? Mine doesn't seem to dripping fluid although I have to add every couple of hours to make it work. It has to be going somewhere, I just don't know where. I don't want to send my valve body to Florida, get it back, install it and then still have the same problem and also have a lighter wallet. I really didn't have too much of a problem until I went with the Marine tilt/trim oil and put that in. Maybe if I put something a little heavier in there my problem would be solved (albeit, probably temporarily). I submit a separate post regarding a different viscosity fluid.

lay newspaper out on ground under trailer. run trim up and down. lift it up without trailer bracket and go have lunch. oil will have to show up somewhere. valve body don't lose fluid unless there is a bad tube connection.

 

[erosenwinkel]

Re: 1985 125hp tilt/trim slowly drops down while in water

If I don't have any dripping, oozing or leakage what does that mean? Does the pressurized fluid get past the seals in the unit itself and not hold the motor up or do I have something else going on? I posted another thread regarding viscosity of fluid also maybe you can take a peek at that. Thanks a bunch, tons of help!!!

 

[RRitt]

Re: 1985 125hp tilt/trim slowly drops down while in water

there is no where for fluid to go except into motor. after about 1/2 cup the motor would quit working. it's got to be going somewhere. keep looking.

 

[erosenwinkel]

Re: 1985 125hp tilt/trim slowly drops down while in water

Sorry that I am being a real pest. I have raised and lowered about 10 times, no fluid on floor. I acetoned my floor under the motor, it is pristine grey and dry. Just measured the drop rate, 1/16" every second. B4 I started using the Pennzoil product (using what was in the system, whatever it was)the drop rate wasn't even close to this. I could probably pics if I can get my kids to teach me how. Rear of boat is dry, floor is dry. Can the system leak down without leaking out of the system or into the motor?

 

[MM2SS]

Re: 1985 125hp tilt/trim slowly drops down while in water

The oil can go past the piston o-ring or past the check balls if the ball is out of round or there is a contaminent in the system. I found a piece of teflon tape looking stuff under one of my check balls and this prevented it from sealing and caused the motor to drop in a minute or two. I also found my tilt cylinder in bad need of honing and a new o-ring. These conditions will cause the motor to drop without leaking oil out on the floor.

 

[erosenwinkel]

Re: 1985 125hp tilt/trim slowly drops down while in water

I think I understand how I can have pressurized oil slip past an o-ring but what I don't understand why after I add a little bit (an ounce) I am good again. Then 2 hours later I have to add an ounce again. The oil seems to be going somewhere and leaving the system. Unless . . . I am not filling it correctly . . . do I need to bleed the system like brake lines? . . .something electrical? . . . wrong fluid? . . . I fill it at the knurled cap, with motor in lowered position, cap located 3/4 way to the bottom on the right hand side looking from rear. I fill it until I cannot get any more in. Tighten cap. I am bewildered. (one hour later, I just edited my post) I ran it up and down a few times a few minutes ago and it sounded as though I had air in the system, kind of made a spitting/squirting/sputtering sound for a second or so. Like air in a plumbing line in a faucet only much quieter. Nothing dripped out or squirted out. Please let me know if I all messed up. Thanks!

 

[Handy Dandy]

Re: 1985 125hp tilt/trim slowly drops down while in water

My problems echo all of yours... I am probably going to attempt my own DIY rebuild of the Valve Body. (Against RRITT's Recommendation BTW) I'm taking my valve, sanity and my wallet into my own hands here commander, but I have to learn the hard way. A gluttin for punishment. I will definitely report on the experience and outcome, as soon as I find a kit to rebuild it with. Any leads, suggestions?

 

[accentphoto]

Re: 1985 125hp tilt/trim slowly drops down while in water

RRitt I PM'd you.

 

[accentphoto]

Re: 1985 125hp tilt/trim slowly drops down while in water

Handy Dandy, I just took it upon myself to do a couple of shaft replacements on my Merc T&T unit and your going to need a strong friend to hold the unit down why you try to remove the cylinder caps and even worse, the rod end.

erosenwinkel, I offer this advice in case you decide its your tilt cylinder over your pump valve.

I had to heat my shaft with a torch to break the thread lock and you run the possibility of melting your o-rings so make sure you can get the parts before you open it up. Also, you may be able to visually check your tilt piston to see if the check balls are moving and there is no crap keeping them from sealing against their metal seats. Just be careful not to cause your own gouge in that area. Granted mine is a Merc and yours isn't but I would think the inner workings should be similar. Fortunately for me I had a donor unit for parts so for me the tools needed to disassemble came out like this: PB Blaster penetrator, adjustable spanner wrench (only used after I broke the initial seal), propane torch (hot enough for mine even though some use MAPP or Oxy/Acetylene), a really good quality punch (China and India usually do not count), a good heavy ball peen hammer and lots of shop rags.

I painted a "catch 22" workshop floor. Mine is 100% epoxy gray which was fine UNTIL I ADDED THE PAINT CHIPS to make it pretty. Now I keep magnets close by as everything I drop just blends right in. A good movers blanket is great to work on the concrete with. It helps the knees and knuckles and all I do is work over a old school car drip pan for the fluids. Ok ... enough typing ... back to the ATF fluid filling I am working on. And by the way, I see motor and hydraulic pump combinations on Ebay for my unit ranging from $140-$180 shipped all the time. If you are sure its the motor/pump area wouldn't this be easier and safer?

 

[erosenwinkel]

Re: 1985 125hp STILL STUMPED

Re: 1985 125hp STILL STUMPED

I am not going to take my pump apart, I put together a plastic Titanic model this past Christmas for my 8 year old and trust me, it would sink . . . again. I just want to get an idea, other than "its broken, go buy a new one" regarding what is going on so I can make a decision what to do. I can still get out on the water at this point but I don't want to have to drive home doing 10 mph in a 55 hoping my skeg doesn't hit the road and rip my lower unit off. As I have stated in my earlier postings . . . can I use heavier fluid, does the system need to be bled, if I have a cotamination issue - can I purge the system of existing fluid and put new in hopefully retreiving the contaminate etc, etc, etc.. As far as the ebay pumps go I heard on numerous posts that they only last a few years, which means it will only last me a season. Not trying to be cheap although I do have 5 kids still under roof. AND . . . I want to say this once again. No external leaking of fluid. Not a drop of fluid on the floor, nothing under the pump body, all compression fittings are dry. Externally everything looks normal.

 

[MM2SS]

Re: 1985 125hp tilt/trim slowly drops down while in water

I took my valve body apart and didn't find it to be too intimidating, you just need to pay attention to what you're doing and where the parts came from. A couple of balls a couple springs and a couple of gears. As I recall the assembly was tricky due to the springs. I did it correctly on the first attempt, you can do it as well. I don't know of anyone that sells a rebuild kit for the pump but boats.net or crowleys has o rings for the cylinders. The lift cylinder o-ring is a different series than what my local NAPA dealer carries so they were either too skinny or too fat. Just order the right ones, they're cheap enough. Good luck