1987 Black Max - difficulty getting starter to engage

[zam88]

This is going to be a bit long.

I have a 1970 Stamas Boat with a 150 HP Mercury Black Max Engine.

The engine has been running fine for me, but the starting has been a real problem.

Last summer I'd been having issues with getting it started and had to move the throttle around while starting it to get the starter to "engage"

When it acts up you just turn the key and listen to absolutely nothing happen.

My engine shop and I thought this sounded like a neutral safety switch issue, and I had it replaced.

The boat did better the next time I was down there (though not perfect)... meaning that it was more consistently getting some action when starting rather than just the dead click.

But after that, it got even worse.

I called the shop back and said I wanted to get it checked out and see what the next step was towards making it work.. The starter seems fine, but something is keeping it from engaging.

They got back in there and cleaned and lubricated the starter, said it was gummed up with debris.... When I got down there this Thursday it was working like a DREAM! Almost 100% connection on the starter. By Saturday it was back to its old tricks again of not working.. by Sunday there were a few times when I wasn't even sure if I was going to get it going. Once it gets started, it runs just fine.

I talked to the shop again and they said the next move is to replace the entire control box.. a $300 part plus probably $200-300 in labor....


Before I do this:
1) does anyone have any other ideas?
2) will a new control box solve my problems?
3) will a new control box be compatible with a new engine if I purchased one?

 

[JB]

Re: 1987 Black Max - difficulty getting starter to engage

Battery cables. Particularly where the ground cable bolts to the engine block, but both end of both cables. Disconnect, clean thoroughly and reinstall.

 

[zam88]

Re: 1987 Black Max - difficulty getting starter to engage

Battery cables. Particularly where the ground cable bolts to the engine block, but both end of both cables. Disconnect, clean thoroughly and reinstall.

Thank you for the reply. I'm a bit of a n00b because I just inherited this boat from my grandfather.

Also I realize since you have 31,000 posts you're a real veteran here.

However, I can't quite figure out the "why" part of that response.


When I move the throttle around WHILE having the key in the start position, sometimes I'll get the starter to "engage" the engine...

That's what leads me to believe the neutral safety switch isn't properly communicating with the network.

But I'll listen on battery cables... Often I have the radio on the boat going while attempting this starting, does that mean the battery is connected well, or makes no difference?

 

[gss036]

Re: 1987 Black Max - difficulty getting starter to engage

There is a plug w/wiring harness tucked in on the starboard side of the powerhead. Pull it apart and use something small enough to get into the hole on the female side, then clean the male side and spray a little wd-40 on it and put it back together. Surprisingly they do short out or get corrided sometimes. I agree w/JD 100%, check all ground fitttings and clean.

 

[zam88]

Re: 1987 Black Max - difficulty getting starter to engage

There is a plug w/wiring harness tucked in on the starboard side of the powerhead. Pull it apart and use something small enough to get into the hole on the female side, then clean the male side and spray a little wd-40 on it and put it back together. Surprisingly they do short out or get corrided sometimes. I agree w/JD 100%, check all ground fitttings and clean.

OK, well I'll give this all a shot!

 

[marty53]

Re: 1987 Black Max - difficulty getting starter to engage

I agree with above- it sounds like battery issue. I have had similar symptoms with a failing battery. Make sure its charged and connections are clean and wires are good.

 

[JB]

Re: 1987 Black Max - difficulty getting starter to engage

Hi, Zam.

My reply was based on the fact that you have already replaced the neutral start switch and serviced the starter motor.

What happens when a tiny bit of corrosion gets into one of those connections is that: On small current loads. . .1 to, say, 10 amps the small resistance drops a small amount of voltage and doesn't interfere with the low current loads, but when you ask it to pass several hundred amps to operate the starter it drops literally all of the battery voltage and there is little or none left to operate the starter motor.

This is a very common problem and very often overlooked in favor of replacing stuff at high cost.

Doing the troubleshooting in the Engine FAQs, "Outboard won't start" should confirm whether your problem is in enabling the operation of the solenoid. . .neutral start switch, ignition/start switch or safety kill switch. . .or in getting power to the starter from the battery.

 

[hkeiner]

Re: 1987 Black Max - difficulty getting starter to engage

Using a multimeter to test for voltage, ground, and continuity (where there should be voltage, ground, and continutity) to solve this type of problem is usually less frustrating than doing lots of repairs on a hunch and then being wrong. The below linked thread has a troubleshooting guide that may be of help to you.


http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=224094&highlight=starter

 

[zam88]

Re: 1987 Black Max - difficulty getting starter to engage

Using a multimeter to test for voltage, ground, and continuity (where there should be voltage, ground, and continutity) to solve this type of problem is usually less frustrating than doing lots of repairs on a hunch and then being wrong. The below linked thread has a troubleshooting guide that may be of help to you.


http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=224094&highlight=starter

Thank you.

I can tell you I have a voltage meter hooked up to my batteries (I have 2) and check it frequently to make sure they are both hovering around 12 volts.

They were still hovering around that this weekend. But I have no checked continuity.

 

[zam88]

Re: 1987 Black Max - difficulty getting starter to engage

I didn't mention this in the original post, but this is an outboard engine by the way. 2 cycle.

 

[JB]

Re: 1987 Black Max - difficulty getting starter to engage

A multimeter or continuity meter will not measure the very small amount of resistance that can cause trouble in battery cables. It is necessary to measure voltage under load.

 

[hkeiner]

Re: 1987 Black Max - difficulty getting starter to engage

JB is absolutely right. A multimeter will not measure the very small amount of resistance that can cause trouble in battery cables. As suggested, it is best to just clean the connections well and see if the problem is resolved.

If it is not fixed, however, voltage and continuity (i.e., infinite or no resistance) testing may be helpful tests depending on the symptoms. If absolutely nothing happens when turning the key, there may be an intermittent 100% failure within a circuit, such as problem with the key switch, break in wiring harness, or other failures where a circuit may be intermittently broken. The symptom described by the original poster (as quoted below) may be such a failure. Who knows without checking with a meter when absolutely nothing happens. Just my thoughts...

When it acts up you just turn the key and listen to absolutely nothing happen.