1988 Johnson 140 looper CRAZY IGNITION ISSUE.....

[SparkieBoat]

Re: 1988 Johnson 140 looper CRAZY IGNITION ISSUE.....

350 on the stator wires seems kinda high to me..not sure why it is so high..normally 180-240ish. over 300 makes me wonder if something is up. that pink wire is probably the problem cylinder..I sure would feel better if you used a fluke meter. hard to tell what a cheapo meter might be doing, they can be off a lot..specially when reading such low voltages. see if you can get your hands on a better meter and repeat test..a power pack is cheaper than a timer base and easier to replace..maybe you should try either borrowing one from a known good motor or just buying a new one from CDI. It would be a little gamble but very well may be the problem..I would retest with a better meter first though. you did check your magnets right?

 

[mbecke2]

Re: 1988 Johnson 140 looper CRAZY IGNITION ISSUE.....

350 on the stator wires seems kinda high to me..not sure why it is so high..normally 180-240ish. over 300 makes me wonder if something is up. that pink wire is probably the problem cylinder..I sure would feel better if you used a fluke meter. hard to tell what a cheapo meter might be doing, they can be off a lot..specially when reading such low voltages. see if you can get your hands on a better meter and repeat test..a power pack is cheaper than a timer base and easier to replace..maybe you should try either borrowing one from a known good motor or just buying a new one from CDI. It would be a little gamble but very well may be the problem..I would retest with a better meter first though. you did check your magnets right?

Well last time I had the flywheel off the magnets "looked" perfect. They were intact and not loose and had no signs that they were broken. I replaced the timer base and stator already, but they were used parts. The pack I bought here on iboats brand new, but not CDI, the off brand like sierra or mallory. I can try to find a better meter and repeat the test. My question is does the left side (amphenol plug) of the timer base fire 2 and 4 and the right side fire 1 and 3. Or not necessarily?? I hate to buy another ppack and that not be the problem. Cheapest ppack i found is 125 and thats on this website for brand new one (not CDI of course). I can get used tbase for 50, but already did that!!

 

[SparkieBoat]

Re: 1988 Johnson 140 looper CRAZY IGNITION ISSUE.....

cheapest I could find yours (133-3508) is $207 on boatfix.com . I paid like $280 for the one on my 1988 200 johnson. I would recommend CDI parts. do you still have your old power pack?? and timer base??.. check those magnets good, they can feel tight and still be moving around, measure the gap in between them, should all be the same.your used parts is probably your problem..put your old parts back on see if you still have the same readings. it is possible you replaced a bad timer base with another bad timer base or something like that..used outboard electronics is not the way to go.

 

[j_k_bisson]

Re: 1988 Johnson 140 looper CRAZY IGNITION ISSUE.....

Going to drink a beer........

Probably the cheapest parts you can buy right now.... lol

If you have a new power pack, I would guess the used timer or stator. The stators on these motors go, know problem. I would not put a used one on my boat even it I was told it was good. It seams that there is a predetermined life span on this part. What it is now one know for sure. but they do go, it's just a mater of time.

A couple questions now that you said you replaced your stator and timer, did you replace the regulator as well? Was it a new one? Also does the tach work in the boat if you have one?

Usually when the stator goes the regulator goes. Maybe it is the power going into the power pack is spiking depending how hot the regulator gets... Just another thought while that nice and cold beer it in your hands. A word of warning about that regulator, if it is bad and you keep running it, it will destroy your new parts quickly.... Definately rule that issue out right away before anything happens.

 

[SparkieBoat]

Re: 1988 Johnson 140 looper CRAZY IGNITION ISSUE.....

jk makes a good point..here is a link on how to test regulator. skip test #5 and 6

http://www.cdielectronics.com/InstallSheet/193-4205.pdf

I want to stress the importance of using a quality meter again. I have a middle of the road meter that works as good as my fluke, but I have seen many cheapo meters that do not.

 

[mbecke2]

Re: 1988 Johnson 140 looper CRAZY IGNITION ISSUE.....

I did not replace the rectifier. The tach works fine. I did some more testing today. I was getting 205V from the stator not 350- had wires mixed up. I also got 495 ohms on the brw wires from stator. I tried the orange wires from ppack to coils, but it was very inconsistent. I did get 190V on all 4, but never consistently. Funny thing is I tested voltage on the kill wire (black/yellow) and got 0 volts with key off, but as soon as turn the key on I get like .80 volts, then when cranking I get around 9volts on the wire. So I guess ignition switch is bad? Still cant figure out if ppack or timer is bad. BUt I am determined!!

 

[daselbee]

Re: 1988 Johnson 140 looper CRAZY IGNITION ISSUE.....

Don't get side tracked on the ignition switch. If you suspect it, simply disconnect the big red plug at the harness.
Also, if you do that, be aware that it will start, and you will not have any way to shut it off, except by choking it with rags over the carbs, or struggling to get that red plug aligned and plugged together again. Use a remote starter switch at the solenoid to do the cranking.

I would take the pack off, hang it off the back of the motor, BE SURE TO ATTACH THE GROUND!!!, and try flexing, pulling, pushing on the rubber connectors from the TB to the pack as you crank it testing for spark. It sounds like you have an intermittent wire in one of those.

If you can move, wiggle a single individual wire and make the spark come back, or go away for that matter, you have found a problem.

Thay 205, 190 v reading from the stator is correct.

 

[SparkieBoat]

Re: 1988 Johnson 140 looper CRAZY IGNITION ISSUE.....

that is a better stator reading...as mentioned some wire wiggling my help find the issue, but I would also like to see a retest with a fluke or equal meter and put the old power pack back on, then try..if no change put all the old parts back on and recheck.

 

[mbecke2]

Re: 1988 Johnson 140 looper CRAZY IGNITION ISSUE.....

NEW RESULTS ARE IN!!! I bought a 50 dollar actron multimeter which has plenty settings and should be fine, but its no fluke. Anyway I started with some resisitance test. I got 480 ohms on brwn wires from stator and 95 ohms on orange wires. I got 40 ohms on the wires from the timer with 5 wire amphenol plug and 116 ohms on all 4 wires on the other side the timer(with white stripe). I checked volts at cranking on the stator brwn wires and got 182 V. Here are the results for timer base at cranking.

-------- Connected-------------------Disconnected
purple____jumping----------------------2.3
blue______jumping----------------------2.3
green_____jumping---------------------2.3
pink ______0.98 ------------------------1.95
w purple--1.14------------------------3.6
w blue----1.12------------------------3.64
w green---.08-------------------------3.4
w pink-----1.15------------------------3.8

It seems as if when I connect to the pack, the numbers jump all over. The numbers on the first 4 on the timer base when connected were jumping between 1.1 and 1.9, but never stayed consistent on the meter. I tried the orange wires from the pack to coils and numbers were jumping all over from 5 volts to 185. I am almost sure the pack is bad, but still have a little doubt. I also tested blk/yellow kill wire while disconnected on switch side and got 0 when key off, but 0.5 volts as soon as key was switched to on position so I know somethings not right there. I have not replaced or checked the regulator/rectifier yet.

 

[SparkieBoat]

Re: 1988 Johnson 140 looper CRAZY IGNITION ISSUE.....

simply disconnect the yellow wires going from stator to regulator, make sure they do not ground anywhere, and see if that changes anything, your problem does not sound like a regulator though. do you still have your old powerpack? if so, hook it up and see if you still have the same problem..it does sound like a power pack problem. I think at this point if you can stand the cost, I would just order a NEW CDI power pack, even if your wrong you have a new dependable power pack. recheck that voltage on the blk/yellow wire, I forget the tolerance (seems like 0.5 was the max) but that can kill a new power pack, I assume it has no voltage with power pack disconnected. but you can keep testing if you want. try swapping some of your old parts and note the changes.

 

[SparkieBoat]

Re: 1988 Johnson 140 looper CRAZY IGNITION ISSUE.....

I have been doing some thinking on your motor..it seems that in 1988 that motor could have used one of 3 different ignition systems. 1 would have 2 power packs, the other would have 1 power pack without quick start, the 3rd would have 1 power pack with quick start.
if you crossed a quick start power pack with a non quick start timer base, it could possibly make a problem. quick start can be disabled by grounding the quick start wire that goes to your head temp sensor from the power pack, I forget which wire it is, but quick start have been known to cause problems..I would still put my old parts back on and retest.

 

[mbecke2]

Re: 1988 Johnson 140 looper CRAZY IGNITION ISSUE.....

Well I pulled the lower unit to check the water pump and all that bc she wasnt peeing. Everything is fine and I got her peeing again. However I did not reinstall the lower unit back on YET. Damn that thing is a pain in the ***. The damn shift rod always gives me trouble when putting the lower unit back on. Is there some trick or easy way to do it?? Anyhow, back to the motor. It is now sparking on all 4, as of yesterday. I am going to reintall lower unit and take her on the water and let you guys know what happens. I am sure I still have the ignition issue, but we will see. I tried reading voltage on the orange wires from the pack to coils and still the meter jumps all over, but the spark jumps 1/2 inch gap even when the meter jumps all around. Is that normal?? Perfect blue snap on tester but meter jumps all over. I have disconnected the white/blk wire and tan wire which come off the left side of the pack (think tan is overheat, white/black is quick start????). Also I disconnected the big red harness and chked all the pins and one looked shorter so I pulled it out a bit. At idle this motor seems to be firing on all 4 as of yesterday. BUt I somehow someway think I didn't fix anything, so we'll see............

 

[SparkieBoat]

Re: 1988 Johnson 140 looper CRAZY IGNITION ISSUE.....

white/blk is the quick start..you can ground that wire to stop quick start. you should reconnect over heat (tan) wire. it sounds like your meter may be of not great quality. I have one I got from wal mart that does really well and was about $25. I will try to post a link for it.
I still recommend putting the old parts back on and retesting. while you got the fly wheel off, measure the gap between the magnets.

here is the link, this multi meter has been very durable and reliable for me.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Equus-332..._src=14110944&sourceid=1500000000000003260530

 

[mbecke2]

Re: 1988 Johnson 140 looper CRAZY IGNITION ISSUE.....

FINALLY!!!!!!! GOOD NEWS!!!!! Took her out today and she ran flawless at WOT!! I was moving 48mph at 5500 rpms!!! I got on and off a plane 10 times and ran great everytime. Didnt skip a beat and NOT EVEN ONE SNEEZE at idle. I've never seen her run so good before. So here's the question?? What the hell did I do to fix it???? Only thing I can think of is I disconnected the tan wire and blk/white wire from the pack. And also I disconnected the big red harness and noticed one of the pins was a little shorter than the rest so I pulled it out a bit. OH AND I PAINTED THE MOTOR!!!! Maybe it just wanted a paint job!! Anyway of course there was a new problem. Reverse did not work. When I put it in reverse it was like it was in neutral and just reved up. Then when put in neutral it actually took off in gear. So something strange is going on with the linkage or shift rod. So I started fooling around and wind up taking apart the control box and saw the PLASTIC gears broken and pieces of white plastic. I was wondering if there is a way to fix this?? I can manually reset the gears inside the box by turning the gears and lining up the teeth but soon as I shift into forward it wont go back into neutral. Everything else is ok, the cable are good, the ignition is good, pwer trim/tilt good. kill switch good. I hate to have to buy whole new control box with cables, but do I have to?? Its that damn plastic circular gear thing that grabs the other plastic thing which moves the cable. Seems to be broke (plastic cracked). But don't let that take away from the sheer fact that THE MOTOR IS FINALLY RUNNING!!! WOOOOHOOOOO!!!!!!!! Thanks for all the help from everyone. Now I can celebrate!!

 

[SparkieBoat]

Re: 1988 Johnson 140 looper CRAZY IGNITION ISSUE.....

possibly all the plugging and unplugging..glad to hear it is all good. controls on ebay for about $100