1989 spark problems

[200hpJon]

»Hello again everybody. I have finally finished up a rebuild of my 89 200 hp. After all new pistons, bearings, rebuilt carbs and everything I have a spark problem. Before the rebuild, the engine would be very hard to start after sitting for a week or more. It would only spark intermittently but would run ok once it started. It never had a warm start problem. I took the boat into the shop to be checked over by a real mechanic before we took it out to test it after the rebuild. He started it and set the low speed timing and did a link and sych on it. The cold start problem is now back and it wont start beacause it doesnt have any spark at all. He tells me that the rectifier/regulator is bad and that it can be causing problems/so he wants to replace it. I was also told that the power pack may also be bad and may need to be replaced. My question is Are we looking in the right direction? The mechanic did tell me when he first was checking it out that the regulator/rectifier was bad but could this be causing there to be no spark? He seems to be confident that 1 of these 2 parts is the problem but like everyone else, I dont like to spend money unless necessary. As always, help is appreciated.
Jons69chevy: Johnson & Evinrude Outboard Troubles/Repair Re: 1989 200 spark problems
»In speaking with him a little more, he says that he is sure that the regulator/rectifier is bad so he wants to get that fixed first and then go from there. The motor does have a brand new battery and a recent starter. Obviosly that doesnt mean that they arent bad but it does lower the chances. I will have him load test the battery and go from there. He was in a hurry when I spoke to him and mentioned a "couple of wires that were in bad shape" I will let you know what happens.
Jons69chevy: Johnson & Evinrude Outboard Troubles/Repair Re: 1989 200 spark problems
»We did a visual inspection and didnt notice anything that was missing or loose. The tach was working before the rebuild, but I cannot be sure that it is working now. He said that it is forsure not charging. I am going ahead and letting him try and fix it, not that I want to spend the money but he has helped us through the whole rebuild process by letting us use tools and different manuals. So in part I guess I owe him that part of the business. The regulator is supposed to be in Friday and I will let you guys know how it goes.


The power pack and the rectifier have been changed and the motor started right up. After sitting for a couple of weeks it would not start again- it has no spark. The shop is wanting to put a timing base on it because it is now checking out bad (resistance check I believe) My question is Are these guys doing their job correctly or are they just throwing parts at this thing. Where would you start checking. Thanks Guys.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1989 spark problems

The water cooled voltage regulator/rectifier combination has nothing to do with the ignition. That assembly (regulator) controls the flow of voltage so as not to overcharge the battery, and the rectifier simply converts the AC voltage being emitted from the stator to DC voltage which the battery of course requires.

Hopefuily the removed parts are in your possession so as you can check them later, especially the powerpack.

To test the spark, remove all the spark plugs, then using a spark tester (not the spark plugs) with a gap set to 7/16", the spark at cranking speed should jump that gap with a strong blue lightning like flame... a real SNAP! Does it?

If no spark of a weak spark, disconnect the large RED electrical connector at the engine, then crank the engine using a small jumper wire from the battery side of the starter solenoid to the small 3/8" solenoid nut (not the 3/8" ground nut).

If you now have the proper spark, and did not previously, you have either a faulty intermitent ignition switch or a conductance short within the wiring harness somewhere between the small black ground wire and the black/yellow ignition kill wire.

To test the ignition switch, reconnect the RED electrical connector, then disconnect the black/yellow wire from the switch. If the spark is as it should be, replace the switch.

Check the two large black coils at the rear of the stator (beginning of ignition system). If they're leaking out a sticky substance down on the timer base and powerhead, that alone would cause either a weak or no ignition situation.

The engine must crank over at least 300 rpms in order for the stator to generate the proper voltage to energize the powerpack. A slow cranking engine (under that rpm figure) will not create the required voltage, and therefore the ignition fails. If this is the case, check all cables and their connections to make sure that they're clean and tight. Note that a HOT cable when cranking is a dead giveaway of a problem in this area.

Let us know what you find.

 

[200hpJon]

Re: 1989 spark problems

The shop still has the boat at the moment. When I have had the problem with it not starting it would get intermitent spark or no spark at all. Right now it is getting no spark at all. My dad was at the shop and they were testing the ignition switch and the nuetral safety switch. They said both tested just fine. During reassembly, the stator looked fine but I did not test it. The funny thing is that I could play with it in the driveway for a couple of hours and all of the sudden it would just start sparking and start. The spark will come back just as fast as it left without us touching anything. I keep thinking that it has to be a connection problem because of it being intermitent. It starts good for a couple of days after you run it for a while. Assuming that the ignition switch is fine and the nuetral safety switch is good. Where would you look next? I appreciate the help...Jon

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1989 spark problems

Assuming anything is a mistake. Print out what I've had to say and when you get the boat back, run it thru the checks I mentioned. Here's a home made spark tester you can easily make.

Spark Tester - Home Made
(J. Reeves)

A spark tester can be made with a piece of 1x4 or 1x6, drive a couple nails through it, then bend the pointed ends at a right angle. You can then adjust the gap by simply twisting the nail(s). Solder a spark plug wire to one which you can connect to the spark plug boots, and a ground wire of some kind to the other to connect to the powerhead somewhere.

Using the above, one could easily build a spark tester whereas they could connect 2, 4, 6, or 8 cylinders all at one time. The ground nail being straight up, the others being bent, aimed at the ground nail. A typical 4 cylinder tester follows:


..........X1..........X2

.................X..(grd)

..........X3..........X4

 

[200hpJon]

Re: 1989 spark problems

My dad is a retired auto mechanic so we have been using his spark tester but it only tests one at a time. He has been over at the boat shop testing with them. They tested the ignition switch and the ground. I forwarded him the directions on how you test everything and he said that they had done it almost the same way. Although he is not an outboard mechanic, he was pretty satisfied with the test results. I dont like to take even his word for things though. So when I pick the boat up I will test everything myself to be sure. (if they dont have some news for me in the mean time) They still have the boat for now. I am going to do some more reading in the manual and try and get the whole picture of the system until I get the boat back in my hands. I cant pick the boat up until the 9th of March now. I will keep you guys posted as to what is happening.

 

[fireman57]

Re: 1989 spark problems

Joe, I still love reading your posts. They are so succinct. I wish I had you around when I was a kid figuring this stuff out on my own. Glad you are still around this forum.

 

[200hpJon]

Re: 1989 spark problems

Well, I forwarded the testing procedure to my dad in Missouri (I am in Illinois) He did the tests you suggested and everthing tests out ok. We have a new power pack on it, a new rectifier and a timer base. We have done the switch elimination tests and the stop test. He did a resistance test on the charge coils and they tested to 937 ohms and 927 ohms. Where should we go from here. At this point it doesnt spark at all....Jon

 

[200hpJon]

Re: 1989 spark problems

bump

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1989 spark problems

Jon.... You state in your reply: "I forwarded the testing procedure to my dad in Missouri (I am in Illinois) He did the tests you suggested and everthing tests out ok"

If everything tested okay, that would mean that you did have spark at some point when doing the test, but you say that you do not have spark at all as of now. That confuses me somewhat.

Did your dad do the test exactly as I typed them or did he bypass something along the way? I would need to know exactly what happened at those test points to continue on.

If all is as it should be, double check the large black coils on the stator to see if thery're melting down, and if so regardless of whatever reading you may obtain, replace the stator.

 

[200hpJon]

Re: 1989 spark problems

I have been out of town for a while and not able to get to a computer. Here is the results. We disconnected the large red wire and cranked the motor with a jumper and did not get any spark with a spark tester attached. We also tested with the black/yellow wire disconnected and got no spark. We also tried disconnecting the black/yellow wires at the CDI and got no spark. The stator was not melted but looked like it had gotten hot on the bottom of the charge coils. The charge coil output test was at 100-110 volts so we changed the stator. The output is now 130-140 volts. The motor now has a new regulator, stator, power pack and timer base with no spark. We did an output test on the power pack and got 0 volts. We have done an ignition switch test, and the kill switch tests per the manual. Is there something else that can cause the power pack not to have an output or is there anything that can cause the power pack to go out? I know alot of parts have been thrown at this thing and the shop jumped the gun with just trying to swap out parts. What do you guys suggest we do. Remember the motor ran with this power pack for a short time and has not started since after sitting for about a week. Also, we did find a broken pin on the shift interupter switch. It has been repaired. Thanks for the time guys...Jon

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1989 spark problems

With a new "Stator", "Timer Base Assembly", and "Powerpack" installed, and with the black/yellow wire (KIll Circuit) disconnected from the powerpack, the ignition system is in new condition with nothing to stop it from energizing.

Unless..... the inner magnets of the flywheel that energize the timer base sensors has melted down, or.....

Unless..... something is wired wrong, allowing voltage to be applied to that black/yellow wire when it was connected to the powerpack. This would destroy the pack, or.....

Unless..... somewhere along the line, there is a faulty pin/socket arrangement. Such as a wire broken away from a pin/socket, or one or the other pushed back where they wouldn't be making contact, or....

Unless..... the starter circuit is faulty which is resulting in the engine cranking at a speed under 300 rpms which is necessary for the stator to energize the powerpack's capacitor.

With what has been replaced, I can't visualize why there would be no spark. That's a engine I'd really like to see.

 

[200hpJon]

Re: 1989 spark problems

The magnets seem strong and do not look damaged in any way. I can only specualate whether voltage was applied to the kill wires on the power pack. That we know of voltage was not applied and there is no voltage on it now. Is there any information on what voltages/readings should be on each wire connected to the power pack? We have visually inspected the connectors and there seems to be no damage. One thing that I can not be sure of is the cranking speed. I dont have a low rpm tach to connect up to it and be 100 percent sure but we even removed the spark plugs to let it crank faster. We have also tried different batteries. It sounds like it cranks fast enough. Should I consider putting another power pack on this thing and seeing what happens? Thanks for the help Joe

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1989 spark problems

Perhaps we are not speaking of the same magnets?

I'm not speaking of the magnets that are on the outer portion of the crankshaft, the ones near the ring gear.

I'm speaking of the North/South magnets in the ring surrounding the center portion of the crankshaft, the ones closest to the crankshaft portion of the flywheel.

If that area has been damaged, melting down, whatever, those magnets would be unable to energize the sensors in the timer base.

 

[200hpJon]

Re: 1989 spark problems

Those 2 magnets have a really stong magnetic field. Upon checking voltages again. We found about 130 volts during cranking on the power pack where the kill wire connect to. The voltage is comming out of the power pack.

 

[mikesea]

Re: 1989 spark problems

disconnect the main engine harness by unplugging the red connectors,you can then do one of 2 things,remove the spark plugs,hook up a sparktester,then jump between the positive from the battery to the yel/red wire on the solonoid,this will allow cranking,if you have spark,your problem is likely the ign.switch or a problem in the main harness,you can also leave the plugs in and use the jump method and see if the engine starts,but be sure to have water to the engine,and understand the only way to shut it down will be by manually choking it,be sure it dont have alot of throttle and all is clear,it will take a minute or 2 to kill the motor,as you see the engine can run without being hooked to the switch,gauges etc.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: 1989 spark problems

Mike..... That's one of the things I advised doing in my first post/reply but I don't know for sure if that was attempted or not.

 

[200hpJon]

Re: 1989 spark problems

We have tried jumping across the starter and the result was no spark. I believe that jumping across the starter with the red wire disconected is elimiating alot of the wiring being the problem and cranking with the kill wires disconnected is eliminating the kill switch wiring being a problem. As far as I can tell, we have done all of the suggested tests and the tests in the manual and have not gotten any spark. If there is a test that we have not given results from please let me know and I will gladly try it. I was told from someone else that the voltage coming from the power pack on the kill switch wires is normal. Is this valid information?

 

[bennysku]

Re: 1989 spark problems

Did you ever get your issue resolved? I am having the same issue and can not identify the problem.