1999 Mariner 125hp 2 stroke autolube

drewactual

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Re: 1999 Mariner 125hp 2 stroke autolube

raising RPM's and increasing bite will do that...
 

headlight

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Re: 1999 Mariner 125hp 2 stroke autolube

raising RPM's and increasing bite will do that...

Agreed but the 21" ally prop we tried on the weekend revved to slap bang in the middle of the WOT band & only gave 31kts.
The other boats I am referring to are only running the manufacturers standard ally props that came with the engine, nothing special ?

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drewactual

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Re: 1999 Mariner 125hp 2 stroke autolube

ever see one of those top fuel drag cars with the huge rear (powered) tires?

the size isn't happenstance... they give direct value to 'overall gear ratio', and have greater effect than even the axle ratio.. if chosen too short, too much torque is capable of being applied and the tire can and will break loose upon acceleration... if chosen too tall, it puts too much load on the engine to obtain the optimum RPM band of the engine, and it's slow off the line because of that.

it's my speculation you are seeing something of an anomaly of conventional prop dynamics theory and application.. I'm suggesting you're seeing excessive slip because you're using the higher pitched prop, and the engines torque is 'breaking the bite free', allowing as much as a quarter rotation without resistance. Conventional wisdom would suggest being under-propped allows the prop to spin due to excessive RPM's, and to the point it breaks free.... the same can happen with an engine powerful enough but over-propped...

Imagine an inclined plane (as in a machine screw) without three breaks in it as a three bladed prop has, or four as a four bladed props have.. that screw is driving into water, and pulling the boat along with it (which is what a prop does, it pulls, it doesn't push).. If you used a machine screw as mentioned, you would achieve enough torque to easily tap into whatever- the limitation would be work accomplished (horse power)- if you were to attempt to drive that machine screw into wood, it would lose bite quickly, and slip excessively (as an under propped boat would)...

If you were to use threads consistent with a wood screw, you would translate torque into horse power as the inclined plane bit firmly into the wood- which would increase bite at the cost of torque, which will be sapped commensurate with the work load being accomplished- this would represent a properly propped boat..

If you were to use a nail with an inclined plane designed for holding force once seated, instead of using striking as the driving force, you can spin it stupid fast and use that plane like a screw- but it isn't designed for that, it's designed for holding force alone. If spun fast enough it will in fact drive into the wood, but it's going to slip a lot in the meantime...

in the 'props for boats' world, slipping happens at the absurd bottom of improper pitch selection, AND at the absurd top as well... If you were to use a 14p blade you would see ridiculous slipping.. If you were to attempt a 28p blade, it would slip too after giving up hope of actually biting in... that would determine your range of effective pitch would be between 17p-ish, and 24p-ish... and now if comes down to dialing it in...

based on the power and the load, you've already ruled out 23p+, and likely 16p-, which gives you between 17p and 22p to work with.. based on your experiments, 22p is struggling... the laser 20p in stainless was less effective for your load/power combo than the 21p aluminum- aluminum will behave like a pitch less stainless due to flex, but also, the geometry of that 21p aluminum is skewed due to the same flex as the point of deflection changes......

I still think you will be better suited for a 19p stainless prop for overall performance, or a similar geometry 20p aluminum... for the reasons you've determined advantageous to your goals, those being range and consumption, you'll be better served with a 18p Stainless or a 19p aluminum... you may discover the speed is actually just as great when every rotation matters in terms of bite.
 

jestor68

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Re: 1999 Mariner 125hp 2 stroke autolube

I've noticed a couple of disturbing(to me) remarks in this thread saying that it's OK to ignore the manufacturer's recommended full throttle RPM range of 4750-5250.

This motor is rated at 125 HP @ 5000 rpm. To go past that is a waste, since power actually drops off past the power peak; which in this case is 5000 rpm.

You should set the motor height 1-2 inches above the keel; no need to hang out over the stern and look at the AV plate.

The more appropriate blade design for that application(as your test showed) is the less aggressive "standard" mercury type. An improvement over the aluminum prop would be the good ole Mercury Vengeance in the same pitch.
 

drewactual

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Re: 1999 Mariner 125hp 2 stroke autolube

Pushing and being able to push above maximum rated rpm are two different things..

Hitting 5k but being able to hit 5.5k is more fuel efficient than burrying the throttle and running the same 5k and only being capable of 5k... It refers back to engine load.
 

headlight

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Re: 1999 Mariner 125hp 2 stroke autolube

UPDATE :

We have now had a chance to assess consumption on my friends boat.
He is still running the 21" pitch ally 3 blade prop & the engine, for now, has been left mounted directly on the transom.
Results are that at a cruise of 3,400rpm & 21kts with no tide & flat calm conditions he used fractionally over 1 litre per nm (1.08 l/nm to be exact).
Now this was purely at a steady cruise, no idling or displacement speeds, just straight onto the plane, measured distance at 3,400rpm/21kts, switch the motor off & see how much petrol it took to top the tank back up.
We do have to motor from our moorings to the sea locks & back to the moorings at 5kts max each trip which were not taken into account so I suspect an average of 1.25 l/nm will be a truer figure for the season overall.
Very pleased (& a little surprised) with how good the consumption figures are as my friend thought that they would be so bad that he would be swapping the motor for a 4 stroke EFI.
He will run the boat, set up as it is, until the spring when the boat will come out of the marina for annual service & clean up & will decide then whether to raise the engine height.

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steelespike

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Re: 1999 Mariner 125hp 2 stroke autolube

1.25 is about 26.25 liters per hour or about 6.56 gph. assuming 4 liters per gallon.
the 125 will use "about" 12.5 gph at wot,about 50 liters.
Did you pick an arbitrary cruise speed?Because ideal gph could be somewhere in the range of just on plane to about 1000 more rpm.
 

headlight

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Re: 1999 Mariner 125hp 2 stroke autolube

1.25 is about 26.25 liters per hour or about 6.56 gph. assuming 4 liters per gallon.
the 125 will use "about" 12.5 gph at wot,about 50 liters.
Did you pick an arbitrary cruise speed?Because ideal gph could be somewhere in the range of just on plane to about 1000 more rpm.

US gallons are 3.785 litres so 26.25 litres is 6.94 US gallons.
Imperial gallons are 4.546 litres so 26.25 litres is 5.77 of our gallons.
My friend dosen"t have a fuel flow meter so 3,400rpm/21kts was used mainly as at that speed the hull gives a very good ride.
Also the engine "sounded" as if it was very happy at those rpms.
Obviously this was only a first proper trial & other rpms may be found to be ultimately more economical.
Do the consumption figures sound good, bad or indifferent for the set up to you as we have little experience of 2 stroke consumption ?
As a comparison we did a 20nm trip in my identical boat yesterday running a Honda 115 EFI 4 stroke.
Conditions were ideal & we cruised at 3,800-4,000rpm & 22-23kts & used 12 litres or .6l per nm.

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