2007 Johnson 15HP carburetor(?) problems

[Hilo_Kawika]

I have two new (35 hours running time) 2007 Johnson (made by Suzuki) 15HP 4-stroke outboards. Both of them idle smoothly at 1000rpm and also perform well above ~2800 rpm. But from 1500rpm to ~2500rpm they cough and sputter and sometimes even die. The mechanic that installed the motors is mystified and Johnson headquarters simply refers me to the mechanic.

I would really be grateful for any suggestions that anyone would be willing to offer in terms of a systematic approach toward solving the problem.

 

[steelespike]

Re: 2007 Johnson 15HP carburetor(?) problems

It sure sounds like some sort of lean problem in the mid range.Tickle the choke in mid range if it helps that would
indicate the carbs are lean.
Brand new at 37 hours it sure sounds like a Manufacturers problem.Your mechanic shouldn't be mystified.If he can't solve it you may want to try a dealer with a factory trained mechanic.Sometimes if you talk to someone like a district sales rep.you may get some help.If it seems Johnson isn't treating you right ,and it does to me, you might mention the forum and the many readers that are following your problem.Sales doesn't like it when the customer is unhappy.
You might want to consult with Suzuki see if they have some sort of bulletin or expierence with this.

 

[muskrat]

Re: 2007 Johnson 15HP carburetor(?) problems

both motor are doing the some thing???????are you using the same fuel tanks or are you switching from different tanks & fuel hose assemblys.are tanks clean & how do the fuel connectors look.

 

[Hilo_Kawika]

Re: 2007 Johnson 15HP carburetor(?) problems

Thanks steelespike and muskrat.

Each motor has its own fuel tank, fuel filter (new) and starting battery. Fuel tanks are clean. I'm not sure why the fuel connectors would be important when the engines run well at idle and at higher speeds...

Is it really ok to run the engines at 2000rpm just using the hose flush unit? That would be the necessary operation to fiddle with the choke, correct?

Trying to talk to the Johnson outboard tech at headquarters was not productive. He left me with "I'd need to actually see the carburetor to help you" which is probably true but not useful from my standpoint.

To add to the difficulties, the dealer is unable to get repair manuals for the engine from either Suzuki or Johnson. My sense of things is that Johnson cares about big engines and doesn't want to be bothered with the small ones which if true really sucks.

 

[seahorse5]

Re: 2007 Johnson 15HP carburetor(?) problems

Trying to talk to the Johnson outboard tech at headquarters was not productive. He left me with "I'd need to actually see the carburetor to help you" which is probably true but not useful from my standpoint.
.

Customer service techs do not get into specific repair or technical discussions with the public. Your dealer mechanic can call a toll free "HOT LINE" to the factory for dealers only and can talk directly to a factory mechanic who will help him step by step to solve the problem.

If the problem is varnish inside the carb from stale fuel depositis, or water or trash, then it may not be a warranty problem as the factory did not put the contamination inside the carb.

If it is a manufacturing or assembly problem, then it is a covered item. Only the mechanic and the factory folks can determine that.

The factory will reopen Jan 2 for the dealer to call.

 

[Hilo_Kawika]

Re: 2007 Johnson 15HP carburetor(?) problems

Thank you Seahorse for your reply.

My dealer has tried to deal with the "HOT LINE" apparently to no avail as witnessed by the lack of response dealing with repair manuals, etc. Although he has asked many times, no manuals are forthcoming. What's this about? I know we live at the end of the road (Hawaii) but gee whiz...

The tanks are clean, the fuel is new, the filters are new, there is no water or trash in the fuel. I frankly can't imagine how varnish can build up in such a short time of usage.

In addition to all this there are leads in the new harness which simply go nowhere ( it's a remote installation).

The downloaded PDF file for the remote installation for 2006 contains obvious errors referring to things in even the 2006 model which were simply not deleted from previous editions by editors.

I'm really not understanding how 2007 motors are being sold to the public and that there's not a downloable PDF file for the user to access for routine maintenance - except that Johnson really doesn't care about small motors. Just go to the website and you'll find that a 2007 manual series of empty folders are there - for what purpose, I'm not sure.

When you look at the Johnson website all you see is the testosterone-filled big motor mentality driving the ads. This is really poor public relations (not to treat all motors the same) as far as I'm concerned.

 

[seahorse5]

Re: 2007 Johnson 15HP carburetor(?) problems

Give me the serial numbers of the motors

 

[muskrat]

Re: 2007 Johnson 15HP carburetor(?) problems

what type of boat & no dont not run at 2000 rpms on flushing attachment.it really dont make since why both motors are doing the samething.are they on the same boat!!!

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: 2007 Johnson 15HP carburetor(?) problems

What is the elevation of your location? It seems they are runing lean at low RPMs. That may be a result of motors manufactured and tested near sea level being used at a significantly higher elevation where the air is thinner.

It may also be a result of the manufacturer squeezing the emissions a bit too tight to comply with EPA regulations. The leaner they run, the lower the emisssions. I remember working on chainsaws when you could actually adjust the carburetors. But then they went to fixed jets to comply with emmissions requirements, and overnight they became impossible to get to run right. As a mechanic, I got the blame. But my hands were tied because of the law and lack of parts availability to actually correct a very simple problem.

 

[Hilo_Kawika]

Re: 2007 Johnson 15HP carburetor(?) problems

Hi Seahorse5, Muskrat and WillyBWright,

Both engines are on the same boat which is an 18', shallow-V runabout that I built 7-8 years ago. The engines are being run at sea level. As mentioned earlier there are no problems at idle speeds of 1000rpm only the mid-range.

The model number is J15TEL 4SU for both engines and the serial numbers are: S 23037795 and S 23037796.

There should be a note in the Tech file about these numbers since I mentioned the difficulty to someone there a month or so ago.

 

[muskrat]

Re: 2007 Johnson 15HP carburetor(?) problems

both motors are not registered...

 

[seahorse5]

Re: 2007 Johnson 15HP carburetor(?) problems

There should be a note in the Tech file about these numbers since I mentioned the difficulty to someone there a month or so ago.

I think your dealer has been "shining you on" as the motors are NOT registered with the factory and the dealer can't talk to the factory help line without serial numbers so they can track engines.

After the holidays, have the numbers handy and call the Customer Service line at 847 689 7090 and find out the 'whole' story.

 

[muskrat]

Re: 2007 Johnson 15HP carburetor(?) problems

I do not think he a real dealer anymore & he cant fix them warranty or at all.call brp or another dealer...

 

[beaufort bob]

Re: 2007 Johnson 15HP carburetor(?) problems

I have two new (35 hours running time) 2007 Johnson (made by Suzuki) 15HP 4-stroke outboards. Both of them idle smoothly at 1000rpm and also perform well above ~2800 rpm. But from 1500rpm to ~2500rpm they cough and sputter and sometimes even die. The mechanic that installed the motors is mystified and Johnson headquarters simply refers me to the mechanic.

I would really be grateful for any suggestions that anyone would be willing to offer in terms of a systematic approach toward solving the problem.

hello HK,

...don't know if this is relative to your case, but I've been experiencing similar problems with my suzuki DF9.9 (which you correctly state is essentially the same motor as the Johnson 9.9/15) ...my problem is in various RPM ranges, but including wide open throttle ...I get terrible vibration and intermittent missing... I can't get Suzuki to respond to my specific problems, despite trying since August of 2006 ...I'm thinking there is a design flaw that they are trying to hide, but that is only my opinion... the motor mount screws vibrate loose, the gas line has fallen off three times, and everything that isn't bolted down in my boat, vibrates! ...two authorized suzuki dealers have witnessed the problem but can't fix it saying basically "that's the way that motor is" ....good luck and I will be looking forward to other comments...

regards, BB

 

[Hilo_Kawika]

Re: 2007 Johnson 15HP carburetor(?) problems

Aloha Muskrat and Seahorse5,

I'm mystified about the engines not being registered. Why? Because when I called Johnson and they told me that the engines hadn't been registered in mid November, I faxed them all the registration information that they needed on NOVEMBER 20, 2006 more than two months ago! The fax number they gave me is 847-689-7235. There was no rejection of the fax by the number they gave me. Is this the correct number? They said it might take a couple of weeks, but...

Please note with all this discussion that all I want to do is have this problem fixed and get some manuals to do servicing. It really doesn't seem likeit should be such a big deal.

BB,

Thanks for your input on this as well. I think that the DF 9.9 and 15 are similar in that the writeups are linked on the Suzuki marine website: http://www.suzukimarine.com/sr06/df1599/

As you navigate the site, note that they relegate these models to the "portables" section without even putting down the HP.

 

[Hilo_Kawika]

Re: 2007 Johnson 15HP carburetor(?) problems

Aloha Seahorse5,

I just got off the phone with Al, a technical service person at Johnson BRP and a very nice and patient fellow. He remembered talking to me in November and didn't understand why the person at Johnson BRP who was supposed to register my engine numbers in November when they were sent didn't do so.

In any case, today I faxed the same information as two months ago directly to Al who said he would personally input the numbers. I'm hopeful that it will actually happen this time...:/

As far as my "getting the whole story" from the technical person, that will never happen because, according to Al, the folks who are knowledgeable about the engines at Johnson BRP will only speak to the dealer - NOT TO A CUSTOMER.:'(

FWIW Al noted that it was entirely possible that there would be leads in the harness that didn't attach to anything...why, I have no idea.:%

The good news is that the manuals appear to be in stock and the part number is 5036560. This might be helpful to you BB even though it's for a 15HP 4-stroke.

 

[beaufort bob]

Re: 2007 Johnson 15HP carburetor(?) problems

Aloha Seahorse5,

I just got off the phone with Al, a technical service person at Johnson BRP and a very nice and patient fellow. He remembered talking to me in November and didn't understand why the person at Johnson BRP who was supposed to register my engine numbers in November when they were sent didn't do so.

In any case, today I faxed the same information as two months ago directly to Al who said he would personally input the numbers. I'm hopeful that it will actually happen this time...:/

As far as my "getting the whole story" from the technical person, that will never happen because, according to Al, the folks who are knowledgeable about the engines at Johnson BRP will only speak to the dealer - NOT TO A CUSTOMER.:'(

FWIW Al noted that it was entirely possible that there would be leads in the harness that didn't attach to anything...why, I have no idea.:%

The good news is that the manuals appear to be in stock and the part number is 5036560. This might be helpful to you BB even though it's for a 15HP 4-stroke.

Good morning HK!

...thanks for replying ...won't help me, though ...funny thing is that I'm getting the same run-around from Suzuki about talking to tech rep ...wonder what they have to hide?

...regards, BB

 

[Hilo_Kawika]

Re: 2007 Johnson 15HP carburetor(?) problems

Update regarding motor registration.

I just spoke to Al a Johnson BRP and thanks to him personally taking the fax sheets to Warantee, both motors are now registered. What happens next, I'm not sure. I suppose I will continue to work with the dealer (with whom I've had a good working relationship for more than 10 years) to facilitate the engine repairs and obtain a service manual. With a three year non-declining warantee on the engines, there should be enough time to resolve this issue...

BB,

I can only think that Johnson BRP's reluctance to sell a service manual to a customer rather than through a dealer must deal with either copyright or liability issues. We live in a litigious world and they must have had bad experiences in this regard to make such policies. Of course that doesn't explain the availability of motor servicing offprints by others to serve the community of engine owners who can't obtain service manuals directly from the manufacturer...

 

[seahorse5]

Re: 2007 Johnson 15HP carburetor(?) problems


Hilo_Kawika,

Everything that you inquired about falls right back to your dealer, who did not register the motors when they were sold as required by his motor contract.

It sounds like he did not talk to the service department hot-line for dealers who would work out the problems step by step with the technician.

All parts and literature is available for sale and that is thru a dealer, another strike against him since you were told the manuals were in stock.

Your best bet may be a "sit down" with the owner or manager and lay out all the problems you've had and the info that you dug up on your own. If you can't get satisfaction, just like when you are dissatisfied with a doctor, lawyer, barber, etc., find another one.

Good luck.

Oh yes, the factory does not get into technical repair discussions with the public due to the liability concerns as you mentioned, plus most of the folks are not trained techs and can either be injured or cause worse problems with the motor. I'm sure you understand that.

 

[Hilo_Kawika]

Re: 2007 Johnson 15HP carburetor(!) problems

Re: 2007 Johnson 15HP carburetor(!) problems

Yesterday (1/5/2007) I had an appointment with the dealer. We talked more about the mid-range rpm disfunctionality of the motors (one more than the other). Then I watched for 2 1/2 hours while he patiently and carefully disassembled the carburator on the more badly behaving engine. He took his time, cleaning and tracing the fuel and air pathways through the carb, not having seen this particular model before. A small obstruction of some sort appeared to have been cleaned out by use of the Honda liquid cleaner (a frightening carcenogenic combination of toluene, methanol and methylene chloride) and air hose. The carb was then re-assembled and put back on the engine.

Starting was easier but the mid-range problem was not completely solved until he changed the idle richness valve setting, increasing the richness by several turns. While this had no effect on the idle speed or behaviour, all of the mid-range engine coughing and choking completely disappeared. He then did the same adjustment on the other engine with the same effect.

I field tested the two engines when we were done and they now work well throughout the full range of rpms.

So what do we learn from this? Perhaps each person has their own way of doing a job, and sometimes it's necessary to be more patient than usual to find out how to approach the person whose services you need. Although a little difficult to pin down because of scheduling problems, once the dealer began to work on the problem, he did excellent work.

I'm looking forward to attending his motor maintenance and repair classes this year.