4-Stroke Engine Choice... Which Engine?

[TheChad]

Re: 4-Stroke Engine Choice... Which Engine?

INTERNETOUTBOARDS:<br /><br />There are 2 different things going on here, prehaps that is the misunderstanding.<br /><br />EPA & CARB are rating the Polution comming from the exhaust.<br /><br />The Lakes, that have banned the used of ALL 2-strokes, arn't looking at the air polution, they are looking at the Oil going into the water.<br /><br />No matter how clean the exhaust is comming from the engine, a 2-stroke will ALWAYS burn oil, Obviously that's nature of the beast.<br /><br />Even if the DFI 2-strokes are burning cleaner emissions then 4-strokes... What does that matter, if the lake itself has completely banned the used of Any type of 2-stroke? You still wont be launching your boat.<br /><br />Thats that I care about. I'm not saying the DFI 2-strokes arn't great engines. I just need to have the piece of mind to know i can to to any lake in the USA, and not have to worry about if they allow the use of my engine.<br /><br />Do 4-stroke outboards have cat's on the exhaust??<br /><br /><br />-TheChad

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: 4-Stroke Engine Choice... Which Engine?

I understand what you are saying, but there are very few body's of water in the U.S. that have taken the step of banning 2-strokes. And those that have, did so without proving that 2-strokes contributed to any pollution levels. Hopefully someone in each of those areas will eventually launch a legal challenge and kill the regulation. I don't know of any place in the SE U.S. that has tried to ban 2-stokes and the only large body of water that I can think of is Lake Tahoe in California. That debacle was passed on the theory that MTBE levels were the result of outboards and jetski's. The problem with that is that MTBE is also found in wells and lakes that do not have boating. <br /><br />I understand your concern and I am not saying not to buy a 4-stroke. What I am saying is that your concern about 2-stroke DFI's being banned is pretty remote. It is much more likely that current 4-stroke's will be banned after 2012, by the EPA and CARB, if they are able to get a positive result from their current testing of catalytic converters. Not required yet. It has not been publicized, but they have begun to test the feasibility of mandating them for 4-strokes in the future. While current 4-strokes would be grandfathered in(just like current 2-strokes), new production would require them to reduce the CO, VOCs and NOx levels. Since current designed catalytic converters will not work(very long) on outboards we can expect either the consumer to buy replacement ones out of pocket or a techno advance( guess who will pay for that and the increased cost)that does not yet exist. Keep in mind the EPA and CARB does require that devices be cost effectve or last...only that they theoretically will reduce an emmission level.<br /><br />As of right now, I really don't think it matters if you go 4-stroke or 2-stroke DFI. They both meet current regulations. They both work...well and both are going to be around in the future...in some form or fashion. The reason I like 2-stroke power is simply based on engine performance. I'm not the least bit concerned about some nitwit activist's idea of saving the " Purple Poot Floating Log Trout Thingy" <br /><br />But, that's me. You and everyone else out there, need to decide what are the most important attributes of making an engine selection. I'll list my selection in order of importance:<br /><br />1) Power, as in hole shot.<br />2) Reliability, as in am I going to be towed in or will I become a statistic?<br />3) Dealer, as in dumbxxx or my new best friend.<br />4) Value, not price. It does not matter what you pay as long as you get what you pay for.<br />5) Warranty, everything else equal. <br />6) Weight, in a small engine that you have to carry its an easy number three...maybe number one if you have to carry it a 100 yards, in a big engine not usually that important.<br />7) Technology level, absolutly nothing beats simple. It's too bad that those days are gone. But, proven technology makes me warm and fuzzy and state of the art new makes be think of "New Coke"<br /><br />Notice how I left out emmisions? Now, if you are in an area where there is a lake or something that has banned 2-strokes...and that is the place you want to go boating...then you are absolutly right to go four-stroke. I think that that there are a lot of people who feel the way you do and for you( which was the purpose of your original question) it may be your best and only choice.

 

[TheChad]

Re: 4-Stroke Engine Choice... Which Engine?

INTERNETOUTBOARDS:<br /><br />As you mentioned, all the lakes that i know about both in California & Nevada that banned the use of 2-strokes, were because of MTBE levels.<br /><br />California has stopped using MTBE in their fuel, I am hoping as you said that those choices to completely ban 2-stroke's will be revoked.<br /><br />I can definitly understand any drinking water lakes not allowing 'old' 2-strokes that dump oil into the water. But i would agree, these new 2-strokes, even just the standard 2-strokes are ALOT cleaner then the old oil/gas mix in tank type.<br /><br />The problem is the EPA & CARB don't controll the lakes. So even if an engine meets all the EPA & CARB requirements, the lakes can STILL ban the use of an engine. That for the consumers is unfair. I feel sorry for the folk that are set out for a nice day of fishing, just to arrive at the lake and find a sign telling them they are not welcome on that lake with their engine... ESPECIALLY if they just bought it!<br /><br />That is my concern.<br /><br />For me Hole Shot doesn't make too much difference. The only thing we would be pulling with our boat will be a tube.<br /><br />Thanks for your thoughts, and sharing your knowledge.<br /><br />You again have me trying to ballance the DFI vs 4-stroke idea... If the DFI (or the 4-stroke for that matter) was just cheaper than the other, it'd be soo much easier to make the choice, because I believe they are both good engines.<br /><br />Another thing that makes it hard is i have not heard a newer engine running. I know what the old 'oil/gas mix in tank' 2-strokes sound like. But I havent had the pleasure to hear the new Oil Injected 2-strokes, the DFI 2-strokes, or the 4-strokes run.<br /><br />I have read some say the DFI 2-strokes are just about as quiet as the 4-strokes. Quiet would be nice so you can talk to someone on the boat, and maybe hear the onboard radio..<br /><br />-TheChad

 

[McGR]

Re: 4-Stroke Engine Choice... Which Engine?

I like to think the 2 cycle bans are just another whacko liberal Californian ideal. My guess is the folks getting these sort of rules passed are your typical tree hugging zealots with their distorted view of reality. I also like to think folks here in the midwest are a little more level headed regarding such issues. It seems to me there are thousands of lakes in the midwest that have endured two cycle outboard boat traffic for well over half a century. I'm not aware of any significant polution attributed to the two cycles in any of these lakes. I think this whole issue seems blown out of proportion.

 

[TheChad]

Re: 4-Stroke Engine Choice... Which Engine?

Originally posted by mattttt25:<br /> i love my yamaha efi 4-stroke. no experience with the others.

Do you know if the Yamaha uses shims and chain?<br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />-TheChad

 

[Triton II]

Re: 4-Stroke Engine Choice... Which Engine?

I have put 270 hours on my Yam FT60B from new in October 2003. I simply follow the recommended maintenance plus I've had a lot of help from rodbolt and other on this forum. So far (as you'd expect) it's been faultless. Maintaining it is easy and I'm no mechanic, just an everyday tinkerer. I'd recommend the Yamaha 4-stroke as it's slightly lighter than its competition and from my (and many others) experience the brand build reliable, durable products. I don't have any axe to grind on this... I actually work for a Japanese corporation which doesn't make outboards but is a major competitor to Yamaha. Just my 0.02c worth.

 

[TheChad]

Re: 4-Stroke Engine Choice... Which Engine?

Is the "Making Oil" Problem with All 4-strokes? Just some? or only old 4-strokes?<br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />-TheChad

 

[DJ]

Re: 4-Stroke Engine Choice... Which Engine?

Is the "Making Oil" Problem with All 4-strokes? Just some? or only old 4-strokes?<br />

It has plagued-most of them.<br /><br />Todays four strokes were originally designed to run at high temps-for efficiency and life.<br /><br />At "typical" outboard temps, they tend to build up allot of unburned fuel and water in the crankcases-simple physics. The same holds true for "raw water" cooled inboards.<br /><br />The difference between the inboards and the new outboards is that the inboards were/are made out of big chunks of cast iron. Those blocks could take allot of abuse.<br /><br />The jury is still out, IMHO, on the longevity of hastely marinized lightweight (aluminum)automotive fourstrokes. <br /><br />I know that Honda has had some serious block corrosion issues.

 

[TheChad]

Re: 4-Stroke Engine Choice... Which Engine?

Putting a higher temp Thermostat wouldn't solve that problem?<br /><br />-TheChad

 

[Paul Moir]

Re: 4-Stroke Engine Choice... Which Engine?

The problem with increasing the temperature on a marine engine is that calcium carbonate (used by shellfish for making shells) comes out of solution as the tempurature rises. This is opposite from most things.<br />The result is, the hotter a marine engine runs the quicker scale builds up in the coolant passages. This forces the engines to operate with lower temperature thermostats - usually in the 140-160° range.<br />This can easily be seen on any outboard if you take it apart. There will be no deposits around the water inlet or water tube, but the head and cylinders will be caked in it. Especially if the engine has been overheating.

 

[TheChad]

Re: 4-Stroke Engine Choice... Which Engine?

Is that a problem for someone who only runs in freshwater lakes?<br /><br />-TheChad

 

[Paul Moir]

Re: 4-Stroke Engine Choice... Which Engine?

It's not as bad depending on the lake, but what are you going to do? Have a fresh water thermostat and a salt water one?

 

[TheChad]

Re: 4-Stroke Engine Choice... Which Engine?

No, I live in IL. I wont be going to Saltwater.<br /><br />-TheChad

 

[mattttt25]

Re: 4-Stroke Engine Choice... Which Engine?

chad- can't answer your question on my yammy. but here's how it boils down in my mind.<br /><br />4's vs 2's dfi- both similar in cost. both similar in weight. 2's will have better acceleration, better midrange, and slightly higher speed. both have similar fuel economy. both have similar maintenance costs when compared over a 5 year interval. both are quiet, but the nod goes to the 4's at idle and trolling speeds.<br /><br />so it comes down to performance vs. noise at low rpms. whatever is more important to you, go for it. for me, i can get to 35 mph 3 seconds slower than my friend with his 2-stroke, and still feel like a man. i'd rather not hear my engine at all while trolling or idling.<br /><br />good luck in your decision.

 

[sparkiepww]

Re: 4-Stroke Engine Choice... Which Engine?

Tpower head on the Yam and Merc both were made by Yamaha. the lower units are diffrent. I'ld go merc with all of those service centers localy... not that you'll need them much... both are very reliable engines.

 

[ziemann]

Re: 4-Stroke Engine Choice... Which Engine?

Sparkiepww-<br /><br />You just responded to a thread that is almost 1 YEAR old....