4 Stroke OB's Rebuilding Questions

[enn]

Re: 4 Stroke OB's Rebuilding Questions

I know of 3 FICHT from 1997 and 1998 that where sold here in Denmark - none of them run anymore - no upgrades where performed by OMC/Bombardier for us here in Denmark.<br /><br />There are several FICHT engines for sale CHEAP - nobody wants them.<br /><br />In our small country there where 2 wery good OMC dealers (and a handfull no good dealers) the best 2 shops (that had been in business for 30+ years) closed after not beeing able to get spares for their customers and getting no waranty support from OMC/Bombardier they where left completely without any support.<br /><br />Now we got a new company importing Joh/Evin - but they have no spares for older OMC motors. (was there last week to get spares for my 91 Evin)<br /><br />While all this has been going on Suz/Merc/Yam amd Merc. has taken the market.

 

[Franki]

Re: 4 Stroke OB's Rebuilding Questions

Hi again Mr enn..<br /><br />the big engines you speak of are pretty slow rpm at WOT.. not sure the same techniques would be applicable in a high rpm situation, but the idea is much the same... (My father is a Marine Engineer and has been working on old ships for 35 years, many of which had the type of 2 stroke engines you describe..) he works on a Trailer Suction Dredge for a worldwide company (The local name of which is "Westham Dredging") I grew up spending every weekend on his ships, it started my interest in boats... I miss those days.....<br />and I agree, there would likely be much less difference in weight with a TC or supercharger.<br /><br />I really hope they do release something like that, but it won't happen till they are forced to by emmisions or something, so I wouldn't expect to see anything like that till about 2010..<br /><br />who knows.. by then the whole question might be moot and we'll be running electric drive motors powered by generators of some sort..<br /><br />rgds<br /><br />Frank

 

[evin300]

Re: 4 Stroke OB's Rebuilding Questions

^

 

[hondon]

Re: 4 Stroke OB's Rebuilding Questions

Hope you did'nt get lost in the frey.I've rebuilt 2 50s and 2 90s.One of the 50s was over proped on a 20 foot boat and came in with poor perfomance across the board and as you might expect, excess oil consumpsion.It required boring which was done by a gentleman you may be familiar with by the name of Steve Benson.One 90 had a cracked block after overheat.The other 2 are from a local commercial user that piles on the hours, sinks em sometimes and ignores maintenance.These were new experiances for me as I'm an old two stroke guy myself.Honda could stand to make their manuals a little easier to use.Never take the bearing coding on the journals and case for granted[got burned on this one,do the plastigage].Parts have not been a problem for me but that may differ geographicly.Got most within 3 days and all within a week.

 

[Franki]

Re: 4 Stroke OB's Rebuilding Questions

I have a question.. <br /><br />Taking the premium that 4 strokes charge.. are the parts for 4 strokes likewise more expensive?<br /><br />or is it much of a muchance?<br /><br />rgds<br /><br />Franki

 

[Ed Z]

Re: 4 Stroke OB's Rebuilding Questions

I have a 1969 85hp Fisher Pierce Bearcat... I have run it for many years before I rebuilt it last year (it ran fine but after 32 years I felt the valves were due for a resurfacing)... These original 4 stroke outboards (as well as the 55 hp version too) were well designed... It has been my experience (with both versions) that these 4 strokes if well designed and maintained can run for many many years with no problem...The newer models I don't know much about longevity on though...

 

[enn]

Re: 4 Stroke OB's Rebuilding Questions

About rebuilding,<br /><br />I have rebuitl a 75 hp Honda due to neglect from previous owner (water in oil after it had been under water etc.) parts are not more expensive than for a 2 stroke - i used bearings from a OEM source (eg. same bearing caps as for a Civic)<br /><br />It was no problem rebuilding it - but the Honda Workshopmanual is not to well written (and the clymer manual for the 75 hp model is horrible and wrong in many places)

 

[terryc]

Re: 4 Stroke OB's Rebuilding Questions

There's some great information in this topic.<br />I'm still wondering if these new four strokes can handle sustained full throttle running for long periods of time, or will this cause damage.

 

[Beernutz]

Re: 4 Stroke OB's Rebuilding Questions

Sounds like submersion might be a problem. Maybe they should stay away from the water until they get this solved. I can get a 2-stroke running like new within an hour of submersion.<br /><br />I spent a couple of weeks in the Bahamas last month, and made a point of surveying the preference there. The 2-stroke is alive and well (actually thriving) thus far in the Islands. Only saw a small number of 4-strokes, primarily on small tenders and in pairs on US registered power cats. Also, most of the motors are carbureted Johnsons, Evinrudes, Mariners, and Mercs. Didn't see much fuel injection. This should be surprising, considering that the price of gas is in the range of $4.00 per gallon on the water ($3.60 on land)!<br /><br />Why?<br /> 1. Lower initial investment.<br /> 2. Fewer maintenance requirements.<br /> 3. Proven reliability.<br /> 4. Availability of trained(?)techs. <br /> 5. They dunk 'em more frequently than they should.<br /><br />If my informal survey has any validity, and if we are to believe the alarmists in the US, one would expect the Islands in particular and the Gulf Stream in general to be one giant oil slick. Well, they're not. Looked pristine to me, in spite of the fact that the outboard motor represents the primary means of transportation and employment for a large segment of the population.<br /><br />I guess the point is that there may be a lot of different answers to this question, depending upon the geographical location of the response. Northern and interior areas are limited to a short boating season. That allows for a lot more maintenance and TLC. In the more tropical coastal regions, it's not unusual for us to put 200+ hours on a motor in a year. We run 'em hard all year long, and pump a ton of saltwater and sand thru the cooling system.<br /><br />I don't care which way it goes. I built and raced both types of motors for years when I was younger, and love 'em both. It's just a matter of application. But give me something that'll take a lot of abuse!<br /><br />Having said all this, I'm quite interested in seeing results of the original post. It'll influence my decision on future powerplant selection.

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: 4 Stroke OB's Rebuilding Questions

I thought I was heading for problems with my new Honda BF50 jet. During the break in period it was prone to smoke on start up after a high speed ripper and a fast shut down. The motor has approx. 20 hrs. on it now and the smoking has completely dissappeared. Since it is a jet and I run in inches of water I'm on the throttle at 5-5500 rpm mostly. A week ago I did its first oil change and put Redline synthetic oil in it. Since I live only moments from the river, I use it daily. Immediately after the oil change a noticeable difference happened. Less engine noise,smoother operation and 3 more honest MPH. This really wasn't a surprise to me since I work on high performance machines daily. In fact, the motor continues to run better and better with more use.<br />Like I mentioned before this little 3 cyl. 4 stroke is winding pretty fast but I have complete confidence in the engineers at Honda. However, while the engine has a 3 year warranty, I purchaced an additional 3 year Honda warranty for $600 bucks. So.....I'll use it hard, enjoy it plenty and if it blows every year, I'll have it fresh for 6 years. No big deal. Also, I've read a lot about more moving parts, more complexity, etc. Under the cowl is a very simple, well designed, EASY to work on, OHC 3cyl, that weighs 203lbs. wet. <br />In the mean time, I'll continue to get constant compliments on my boat where ever I go and be the fastest starting outboard at the ramp. Since I've been working on internal combustion engines for 30 years I have a very low tolerence to exaust, I get headaches easily these days. No way I could I stand the 2 stroke haze and glaze. Additionally, here on the left coast, right or wrong, there are a lot of waters that 2 strokes are banned and a full moon on Lake Tahoe is a sight to see.<br />Even though my motor will be maticulously maintained with the finest lubricants and OEM hardparts, it will be used often and HARD. I'll be installing an hour meter this week and I'll keep this forum informed....maybe.<br /><br />I only say maybe because some would think that I'm saying mine is better then yours and some would argue my headaches. I say, run what you brung and have fun. I really don't care if you have twin turbine 1648/2 stroke parrallel flanahans and towed it to the ramp with a Cat D8. <br />I see plenty of very, very nice boats with 2 strokes. If I owned an Evinrude Ficht I'd be plenty proud of it, probably. However, I'd spend more time on the water with it then argueing about its supposed greatness.<br /><br />There is a registration sticker both on my boat and trailer. This is the powers that are way of telling me my boating pleasure is a priviledge, not a right. You can best bet YOU will not be the ones who will ultimately decide what stroke, 2 or 4, you can have. <br />Pointless debate, 2 strokes right or wrong, clean or good, fast or light are already on their way out.

 

[jsimpson]

Re: 4 Stroke OB's Rebuilding Questions

Skinnywater, I'll be less gentlke in my remarks than you. Honda's four-stroke technology is race-proven with rpm MUCH greater than 6000 rpm for over 40 years. Two or three hundred thousand miles on a civic engine is not at all unusual. Wide open throttle running is not nearly as hard on a high rpm well-balanced engine than downtown traffic running. My fifty years experience operating,maintaining, and racing outboards, motorcycles, and automobile engines tells me that two-strokes never have been and never will be a match for four-stroke engiens in any application other than where light weight is the overriding consideration, overriding to the point that all other considerations have to be sacrificed to some extent.