81 Sea Ray 26 Sedan Bridge I/O to OB Conversion/Restore (Pics)

[zopperman]

Re: 81 Sea Ray 26 Sedan Bridge I/O to OB Conversion/Restore (Pics)

I really didn't know how to describe the 2' FG things in just a few words.

These will be approximately 4' high and come out probably 18" from the main bulkhead. I plan a wood frame with 1/4 ply on the outside, and cover the entire thing with several layers of 1708. The inside of each "thing" (need to come up with a name for them) will be inset for the plxiglass doors to fold into when open. The port "thing" will actually be integral to the staircase, but the starboard side may need a support arm at the top corner. Don't know yet.

Sounds pretty good to me. I was going to say, making a solid fiberglass piece would be hard and $$$.

 

[GT1000000]

Re: 81 Sea Ray 26 Sedan Bridge I/O to OB Conversion/Restore (Pics)

Hello CaptainKickback,

I have been reading through your amazing refit of this Sea Ray...finally got caught up to the present...WOW!

What a fantastic job you are doing.

Great quality and craftsmanship.

That is going to be one beautiful boat!

"thing" (need to come up with a name for them)

I came up with a possible name for the 2" FG things...how about "Knee Walls"? Just thinking out loud...and yes it gets me into trouble quite often...:redface:

Best Regards and Godspeed,
GT1M

 

[CaptainKickback]

Re: 81 Sea Ray 26 Sedan Bridge I/O to OB Conversion/Restore (Pics)

GT1M, thanks for joining us and for the naming suggestion. I'm sure that will stimulate more thought.

I see you are a Miami boater. Not far away.

BTW, I sign my posts as kickback. That name was taken when I signed up on iboats so I added captain. The name kick back came from the name of our hair salon (my wife's the stylist, I was a computer guy). The original iboats kickback only did 4 posts back in 2002. Maybe I should ask the moderators to retire the original guy.

 

[GT1000000]

Re: 81 Sea Ray 26 Sedan Bridge I/O to OB Conversion/Restore (Pics)

Thanks for having me aboard KB,

Yeah recently got "Hooked" into all this boating stuff and loving it...heartaches and all.

Since we are dangling way down here at the end of th Earth, so far away from the Central guys, we gotta do a wet get together one day when we get all our ships in order...I am unfortunately quite a ways from something like that, but it would be fun!


Later,

GT1M

 

[CaptainKickback]

Re: 81 Sea Ray 26 Sedan Bridge I/O to OB Conversion/Restore (Pics)

I hear you on being a ways away. We're targetimg July 4 next year to get on the water. That's a soft date, so don't anyone hold me to it.

 

[CaptainKickback]

Re: 81 Sea Ray 26 Sedan Bridge I/O to OB Conversion/Restore (Pics)

[h=1]Using CSM ???[/h]I started working on fiberglassing the first three pieces of the six main bulkhead pieces today. Put a coat of resin on one side of each. I had already cut the CSM, so after the resin tacked up a bit, I was ready to put on a layer of 1.5 oz CSM.

Well, it wasn?t pretty! First, the cheapie Harbor Freight foam rollers I bought just disintegrated within seconds after starting to use them. So, I had to brush the resin on. With the only mixing cups I had with me (working in back of the salon today), I could only mix about 10 ounces of resin at a time. So, multiple mixings (3). But I can correct those things easily enough in the future. Here are some problems I have questions about:

Brushing the CSM, the glass strands come out easily and bunch up. Once cured, the surface requires a lot of ?knocking down? all these strands. Is there a preferred method of applying the resin so this doesn?t happen? More resin? Trim the brush hairs shorter? Dab instead of brush?

Edging ? They are going to be a mess once this mess cures. I?m trying to get a layer of CSM over the entire board, just like with stringers and floorboards. But, I?m having a very difficult time going over the edges with the CSM. What is the best way to get a layer of CSM on the edges? Cut FG to just overlap edge of board? How much? Enough to just cover the edge? Go completely over the edge around the back side? Just half way over the edge (doing the same from the other side will then cover the edge)?

Using the roller tool ? I have a metal roller intended for working out the air bubbles. I noticed once the resin begins to tack up a little, the roller tends to pull the CSM off the board. So, I guess tack time is too late to use it.

So, I?ll sleep on this tonight, and hopefully there will be lots of good advice waiting for me on the forum tomorrow morning. Thanks all.

 

[CaptainKickback]

Re: 81 Sea Ray 26 Sedan Bridge I/O to OB Conversion/Restore (Pics)

[h=1]Polyester Resin Adhesion Question[/h]I plan to support the gas tank and water tank by tabbing in starboard between the stringers. Does the poly resin stick well to this or should I use some other material besides starboard?

 

[ezmobee]

Re: 81 Sea Ray 26 Sedan Bridge I/O to OB Conversion/Restore (Pics)

I'm no fiberglass guy or plastics expert but if I had to guess, I would say poly won't stick to Starboard. Very little does stick to it other than the uber-expensive recommended 3M ScotchWeld. I used Starboard for my dash panels and used some 5200 on them to hold them in place. I knew it would eventually fail and knew that they had to be mechanically fastened (my gauges and switches and what not that are bolted through it accomplish that). Well it failed in like 2 days! Crazy.

 

[GT1000000]

Re: 81 Sea Ray 26 Sedan Bridge I/O to OB Conversion/Restore (Pics)

Far as I know, Nothing chemically or mechanically bonds with starboard, only mechanical fasteners, I haven't tried the uber-expensive 3M stuff, so I can't speak to that...
For the answer to the part about working with Glass mat, my limited experience has taught me there is no substitute for messing up and doing it over...
However, I have learned that if you gently break up the CSM before you lay it over a corner it will conform better...Not tear it apart, but sort of "loosen" it up from the binder.
Also, rounding over any edges of your wood, help a lot, similar to using the PB to fillet and form a rounded transition between two parts.
And, yep, once it starts to Gel, you are done, anything else you do can jeopardize the bond...if it is too bad, refer to my previous statement about messing up.
Also, jabbing as opposed to brushing is my preffered method when using a brush. Shorter bristles can help.
Hope this helps.
I am certain others can give you more input.
Regards,
GT1M

 

[CaptainKickback]

Re: 81 Sea Ray 26 Sedan Bridge I/O to OB Conversion/Restore (Pics)

The news about starboard is what I kind of expected. I guess when its used on boats, it is probably bolted in.

I hear ya on the do it and redo it. Experience is the best teacher.

In my case, I am butting 3 pieces of ply together, kind of like butting floorboard pieces together. So, another question is, do I need fiberglass on the edges or is resin alone enough to seal out water?

 

[Philster]

Re: 81 Sea Ray 26 Sedan Bridge I/O to OB Conversion/Restore (Pics)

Two modern 200 HP outboards will be good power, and will likely out rev any marinized car engine, and the power curve will be better, so HP ratings aren't always apples-to-apples. I think you'd be good there.

No, if it were me, I'd want some cushion in the form of twin 225's.

 

[Philster]

Re: 81 Sea Ray 26 Sedan Bridge I/O to OB Conversion/Restore (Pics)

I vote for twin 200's. Two modern outboards will have some punch to them at all parts of the powerband and out rev marinized car engines, so it'll feel more than a 60 HP boost for sure.

 

[GT1000000]

Re: 81 Sea Ray 26 Sedan Bridge I/O to OB Conversion/Restore (Pics)

In my case, I am butting 3 pieces of ply together, kind of like butting floorboard pieces together. So, another question is, do I need fiberglass on the edges or is resin alone enough to seal out water?

I am not 100% sure, but I would wet out the wood with resin, add PB between and then tab with 1708 and finally lay on some CSM...my thinking is that this would make it not only waterproofed, but structurally sound, similar to what I see some guys doing when they lay their decking pieces and the joints are butted together.

My disclaimer is that I am a total novice at this and am only trying to put into words what I think I have learned from this site...I have been wrong before, and I will probably be wrong again, so anything I may say, should be held suspect until proven right by someone who actually knows what they are talking about...:redface:

 

[CaptainKickback]

Re: 81 Sea Ray 26 Sedan Bridge I/O to OB Conversion/Restore (Pics)

I vote for twin 200's. Two modern outboards will have some punch to them at all parts of the powerband and out rev marinized car engines, so it'll feel more than a 60 HP boost for sure.

I hear you on the 200s. I was originally thinking 250s but was worried th was too much power. Then at the Fort Lauderdale Boat Show, several vendors convinced me that 175 would be just fine. But 200s gets me a little extra kick. And in watching the used engine market, finding a nice pair of 200s will be easier than finding a pair of 175s.

BTW, you seem to have some knowledge of the power output differences between I/O engines and OBs. So I guess from what you said, I could expect a pretty sizeable jump in performance with 200 OBs over the original 170 I/Os. Good to know.

 

[CaptainKickback]

Re: 81 Sea Ray 26 Sedan Bridge I/O to OB Conversion/Restore (Pics)

I am not 100% sure, but I would wet out the wood with resin, add PB between and then tab with 1708 and finally lay on some CSM...my thinking is that this would make it not only waterproofed, but structurally sound, similar to what I see some guys doing when they lay their decking pieces and the joints are butted together.

My disclaimer is that I am a total novice at this and am only trying to put into words what I think I have learned from this site...I have been wrong before, and I will probably be wrong again, so anything I may say, should be held suspect until proven right by someone who actually knows what they are talking about...:redface:

I think we're on the same page here. The tabbing provides the strength, but a coat of resin on the edges before bedding them in with PL will do the trick for water proofing.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 81 Sea Ray 26 Sedan Bridge I/O to OB Conversion/Restore (Pics)

For your edges, try tearing the Csm into strips. The tearing action loosens the material and makes it conform better. You can also pre-crease it using a piece of wood to crease a seam into to and that will help it make the corner. But tearing it seams to work best for me. the "Hairy Edge" created by tearing helps pull it into shape. Takes a bit longer to work with smaller torn pieces but you'll get less air bubbles. You should really try to get a layer on the edges to ensure good waterproofing.

 

[CaptainKickback]

Re: 81 Sea Ray 26 Sedan Bridge I/O to OB Conversion/Restore (Pics)

Thanks Wood. GT1M mentioned that method as well, but I guess I was hoping to get by easy. Now I have strong confirmation that I can't.

I hope to get some time to work on these pieces today. I'll put your method to use.

 

[CaptainKickback]

Re: 81 Sea Ray 26 Sedan Bridge I/O to OB Conversion/Restore (Pics)

[h=1]Bulkhead Progress[/h]Yesterday, I got the grinder out and went to work on the ?ugly? piece. It took a while, but I got all the air bubbles out.

Today?s goal was to put a layer of 1.5 oz CSM on the other side of the first three main bulkhead pieces. I had cut the FG yesterday, so I thought it would be a breeze today. Not to be. I first put a coat of resin on the three boards and let it tack up (about an hour). Easy enough.

So, I started to FG the center main bulkhead piece. That?s when Murphy showed up, as oops! would say. Halfway into putting on the FG, the CSM started bubbling (raising, not boiling) off the board. That?s when I discovered the mistake I made. I had poured the resin mix into the same rolling pan I had used an hour before to coat the boards. The first batch was not as cured as I thought and the two were mixing together, a bit lumpy, and obviously not making the CSM stick to the board. In addition, it appeared that my 2% mix was starting to tack already.

I immediately stopped using that mix and quickly mixed another batch at 1.5%. But too late to keep me from having to do more work on that board tomorrow. About a 1? x 2? section of the board has huge bubbles I will have to grind out.

Two lessons learned:

1. Always use clean mixing cups and roller pans unles they have cured from a previous day.
2. A 2% mix in mid-day Florida is too hot!

This brings up a question. Resin manufacturers say mix 1.5% to 2.5%. But even a 1.5% mix in Florida seems too hot. As a test, I mixed some resin at 1%. Next day, it was hard as a rock and well stuck to the board. Are there any long term problems using a 1% mix in hot weather?

My second and third boards went OK. Nothing like experience as a teacher!

 

[WeldZilla]

Re: 81 Sea Ray 26 Sedan Bridge I/O to OB Conversion/Restore (Pics)

You know if you haven't bought your engines yet. I think you should shop around for the XX-longshaft outboards. Those have a 30inch leg. If you built your platform at about 30 inches.(mine is 29 inches) you could have the top of the engine mount 33 inches higher than the transom centerline. Your engines would be well up out of the water. I got by with a 25 inch leg so well I believe, because my boat is a 22 ft. aluminum boat and was so light to begin with. The good news is by going with the 2 outboards you should gain a lot of freeboard just because they will be way lighter than engines and outdrives. This is a seriously major project you have undertaken. I really want to see it be a dream come true!! I will be watching.

WeldZilla

 

[CaptainKickback]

Re: 81 Sea Ray 26 Sedan Bridge I/O to OB Conversion/Restore (Pics)

Thanks weldzilla. Glad you're on board.

Are you worried that if I use 25" shafts that i won't be able to trim them completey out of the water? Any other advantages to 30"? I think a good, fairly new, matched set may be hard to find.