85 force 125 tilt issue

[bpimentel]

I've had the boat about 3 years now and since day 1 the motor has always leaked down. Yesterday when i had the boat out I could.t even keep it trimmed up at all i had to stay on the tilt up. So me being the fix it my self kinda person ... I think I messed up somewhere along the lines of tearing it apart and trying to repair it myself. Is there anyway to get ahold of the the drawing to rebuild the pump? Thank you.

 

[pnwboat]

Re: 85 force 125 tilt issue

I've never seen any diagrams in a manuual, but here are a couple from Forum users. There's several different variations of the valve body.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=209803

Here's another one.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=463790&highlight=tilt+trim+pump

Here's one that shows the details of the small shuttle valve (not sure about my terminology here) "O" ring (4th picture).

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=418734&highlight=tilt+trim+valve

If all else fails, RRitt is the expert on these.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 85 force 125 tilt issue

I've been working on Force's since 1985 and still won't try to work on the hydrolic motor.
The electric motor,yes, the pump NO.
Like PNW says RRItt works on them.
He recently posted about not working on them.
Not sure what he's gonna stop working on the pump or the electric motor.
He'll see your post and maybe clear that up???

 

[RRitt]

Re: 85 force 125 tilt issue

the third link is the best one. he even has a picture of the carb kits that include a little gas-resistant seal of just the right size. The single most important instruction for a home repair is DO NOT LOOSEN OR REMOVE THE GEARPLATE. Bleed down is caused by check valves (bottom section behind the plugs) anyway. Nothing good can come from messing with the gearplate. You don't have the tools, the experience, or the documents to mess with it. So don't.

I don't have 100% confidence that the carberator seal will last a decade under duress. However, I am 110% sure that it will outlast the cheap aftermarket seal. If you are careful not to damage the check valve housing. If you clean all parts with solvent and assemble with a droplet of red thread lock. If you use high quality orings of industrial or milspec grade (sizes 011, 012, and 013) then you will have a better working and more durable valve body than new aftermarket. The OEM is to aftermarket as Dewalt is to Harbor Freight.

As regards my repair - I no longer do full restoration of Chrysler Force valve bodies to new condition. The basic repair service no longer includes painting, thread repair, or resurfacing the regulator seats. For 9 out of 10 people the only difference is that it won't look new. For people with stripped threads or rusty regulator seats there is an additional charge that used to be included. The flat rate price dropped from $95ish to $70ish (depends upon version). Otherwise I'm still doing the repairs and everything else is the same.

I'm not doing motors at all. Maybe some light rebuilds on 2w. Sometimes 2w don't have any rust and you can make them as good as new with seals and cable & brushes without spending too much time. 3w is hopeless. The chinese motors are very well built internally. Their lack of experience in waterproofing shows. You need to use rubberized sealant on the cable entrance and bolts otherwise the motor may not last very long. They also have a lot more galvanic corrosion problems than their US counterparts. So you need to add a small anode and strap. But I can buy the chinese 3w for $80 which is about the cost of parts to fix a prestilite (brush cap, cable, cord grip, gaskets, through bolts).

 

[bpimentel]

Re: 85 force 125 tilt issue

I thank y'all for such a fast and helpful response to my issue. I just might have to have it rebuilt . I've got the 4 bolt 3 spring top and haven't even thought of pulling the retaining rings on the bottom. Looks like its not too horribly complicated. But its alot easier to have someone work on a still assembled unit vs someone else tearing it apart and getting pieces in a box. Is there a way to get the schematic for the pump I have?

Thank y'all

 

[RRitt]

Re: 85 force 125 tilt issue

4 bolt, 3 spring, eh?
that narrows it down to less than eight possible designs.

seriously. just leave the top half alone. If you repair the bottom then great, it will usually stop bleed down. Sometimes the check valve just simply has to be replaced and sometimes the gearplate has to be replaced. If either of those conditions exist then you can't do the repair without spare parts anyway. If the threads are stripped then take out the plugs before doing any thread repair. If you get shavings inside the check valve then you're fubar. As long as you don't damage the housings then it can always be fixed. If you plan on keeping boat then it's worth the effort. A new valve body without cheap rubber and soft metals is $250-$300. You can spot the good aftermarket valve bodies because they have recessed end plugs that are held in with retaining clips. If the face of the end plug extends beyond the body casting on any new valve body then it should be viewed as the $90 product. Prestolite hasn't made new since 1992 and to the best of my knowledge all of the good aftermarket products used retaining clips.

 

[bpimentel]

Re: 85 force 125 tilt issue

That's the issue I've already taken apart the top half and I do have the valve body with the retaining rings on both sides. Nothing is stripped out and the whole inside was covered with just nasty sludge. Also the armature of the motor as well as the entire inside was soaked with the same solution. I haven't gotten into the bottom partnof it yet because it is not performing the same act as before. I need a drawing to be able to assemble it to the way it was then I will try to continue to get into the lower half. I thank you for your assistance and if there's any way to distinguish which valve body / pump I have sonic can get an accurate schematic that would be awesome

 

[RRitt]

Re: 85 force 125 tilt issue

aw jeez. you shouldna oughta have taken that apart. find my $75 ebay listing for repair and send it to me.

the chinese motors are good enough that it is not worth the effort to repair original. The original is a better motor because it has better seals. Better seals = better motor regardless of all other concerns. I can get the chinese 3w for $80. the parts to fix original cost that much and you're still left with 2 hours of work. So the smart course of action is to slather the chinese motor with rubberized paint or something.

 

[MJS]

Re: 85 force 125 tilt issue

can the chinese motor be treated or dipped in rubber to add a waterproof seal?
Edit: oops, I didnt read all the way:facepalm: