86 force 85 hp

[tgvector64]

i have a 86 force 85 horse, the number two cylinder is dead, i have 119 compression, spark is good, plenty of fuel, no back spit out of the carb, i am totaly stumped. i thought maybe to much fuel but completely bypassed the number two carb and the same. changed plugs, still the same, 1 and 3 cylinders are fine, does anybody have any suggestions?

 

[foodfisher]

Re: 86 force 85 hp

If youv'e got compression, spark, and fuel it should work. What tells you it's dead?

 

[tgvector64]

Re: 86 force 85 hp

If youv'e got compression, spark, and fuel it should work. What tells you it's dead?

I can pull the plug cap off and there is no change in rpm, I had it out once and about half throttle it kicks in and smooths out. once u get below that is starts runnin rough again. I have heard of weak spark under compression but that usually goes throught the whole power range, just cant figure it out.

 

[tgvector64]

Re: 86 force 85 hp

If youv'e got compression, spark, and fuel it should work. What tells you it's dead?

I also put a new plug cap on and still no change. Also i dont recomend pullin the cap off with bare hands. done it a thousand times on cars and never got zapped like that. lol

 

[foodfisher]

Re: 86 force 85 hp

Are you shorting between plug cap and head? Just throwing things against the wall.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 86 force 85 hp

Doesn't sound electrical? But change the coil around and see if it follows the coil?
The inital carb air screw settings?? One turn out from lightly seated.
That middle piston runs the fuel pump. Make sure the diaphram is good.
Any excess fuel on the plug?
Clean the carb.The low speed jet could be clogged?

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: 86 force 85 hp

If it smooths and runs well at 1/2 throttle and above, the low speed circuit is not delivering fuel. This is dangerous as you can melt a piston at or near full throttle. Remove all three carbs, disassemble them, and clean them well.

 

[tgvector64]

Re: 86 force 85 hp

If it smooths and runs well at 1/2 throttle and above, the low speed circuit is not delivering fuel. This is dangerous as you can melt a piston at or near full throttle. Remove all three carbs, disassemble them, and clean them well.

the plug has been wet everytime i have pulled it out. I have slowly covered the carb intake with my hand while running to see if it would change and seems to get plenty of fuel, still didnt change any, just soaked my hand in gas. the only place i could see would be a adjustment screw is on the top of the carb but its capped and sealed. havent had my butt kicked by a motor in a long time. it looks like the vacuum line that runs the pump comes up from the number three cylinderand its in good condition as is the fuel pump diaphram.

i appreciate all your input.

 

[tgvector64]

Re: 86 force 85 hp

If it smooths and runs well at 1/2 throttle and above, the low speed circuit is not delivering fuel. This is dangerous as you can melt a piston at or near full throttle. Remove all three carbs, disassemble them, and clean them well.

Im going to try swappin the coils around today, see if thats the problem. thanks.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 86 force 85 hp

That line you see is the recirc system.
#2 runs the pump.It gets vacum from a hole behind the pump.
Check the diaphram.
The bottom piston cover has the linkage hooked up on it.
The 86/85 carb could have a screw/spring on the top front.
Or just a screw. It shouldn't have a cover??
Post a pic.

 

[tgvector64]

Re: 86 force 85 hp

ok, i have determined that that cylinder is just not firing at the right time, way before or after its suppossed to.
theres two cdi boxes with one orange and one red wire that come out of each. two coils are hooked to the red ones and one coil is hooked to one orange one. the other orange is blank. is it possible the coils are hooked up out of sync.

 

[tgvector64]

Re: 86 force 85 hp

i did find the mixture screws and the were set right where they were supposed to be,

 

[tgvector64]

Re: 86 force 85 hp

does anybody have or know where i can find a schematic for this.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 86 force 85 hp

You should have a diagram on the motor.
The orange lead is the lead for a 4th cylinder.
Unless someones changed it around it would be impossible to miss timing.
If it's firing and running on 1/3 the middle should be right.
Both of my 85's the second pack orange lead is unhooked.
You check the fuel pump diaphram?

 

[tgvector64]

Re: 86 force 85 hp

ok , the feul diaphram is ok..on the boxes, on mine its the one cylinder goes to the forward orange. two goes the forward red, 3 goes to the rear red,the rear orange is the loose one. and i do really appreciate this as i am so stumped right now.

 

[maytheforcebewithus]

Re: 86 force 85 hp

CDI electronics offers this trouble shooting guide...There is a wiring diagram that starts on page 118...


ISSUU - CDI Electronics Troublbshooting Guide - 2012 by CDI Electronics

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 86 force 85 hp

Outboard ignitiion . com gives procedures for the Forces.
CDI gives test procedures for their products.
The compression is at 119 for all 3?
The plugs all burning right?
If you have spark, and compression, timing.It shouldn't have a problem.
Now the diaphram no rips or tears?
The carbs, take em off and clean them.
Low speed is ran off the low speed side of the carb.
Possible it's clogged? #24 Possibly #9 there might be holes in the tube and they are clogged??
The fuel recirc system could be clogging too?.

 

[tgvector64]

Re: 86 force 85 hp

ok. I found a wiring diagram for the cdi and coils, everything is hooked up right, the carbs were spotless nothing plugged or clogged, new plugs and wire caps, the fuel recirc was clear, comp on #1 is 121 #2 119 #3 117. Im tellin ya i just dont get why this is runnin the way it is. i dont have the equipment to test the cdi units at the time but thats my next step.
Thank you for all the input, greatly appreciated.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: 86 force 85 hp

You try switchin the coils?
Then try switchin the packs.
When you pulled the carbs, did you check the reeds?

 

[tgvector64]

Re: 86 force 85 hp

Yes, i swapped the coils and the packs, same results,figured it would at least change cylinders if they were the problem. if it was the reed valves wouldnt i get more blow back out of the carb? I am going to check them this morning. Thank you.