89 Force valve body replaced but no lift

[Glenn Iverson]

I had the dreaded leak down on my Force 125 where the motor was slowly dropping so I replaced the valve body. Refilled with non detergent 30 oil. motor runs but no lift. I manually tried to move the engine up and down to burp the lines. I noticed the trim cylinder is completely retracted. When I am listening to the motor it sounds like it would during the tilt phase but not the trim phase. It is hard to add the oil to the reservoir without gettingc airlock so maybe I don't have enough oil in it but I somehow have to make it work enough so that I can cycle itI found a syringe that may work better for adding oil . Any thoughts?

 

[jerryjerry05]

No Title

The "burp" is done when it runs up and down.
​No special procedures.
​I use on old oil can to add fluid.
​You add when it's all the way tilted down.
It only takes a small amount of oil to make it work a little.
Don't add oil while it's up. You can push oil up into the electric motor.

IF??? the new one doesn't work???
More than likely it's BAD!!!

They make a lot a lot of them and hope one works.
Someone just went through the same thing you did.

​You sure the end of the armature went into the pump?
Some had a coupler in there?
Remove it and measure the housing comparing it to the old.

 

[Glenn Iverson]

Motor was down when I added oil. When I put it together I was careful to line up shaft with valve body slot. Is that trim piston supposed to be totally recessed? It must have happened when I removed the old one.I thought I had bought OEM replacement but it turns out to be aftermarket.Looks a bit different inside. The two towers with the threaded holes are shorter.

 

[Jiggz]

You probably had air in the system. With the motor in full down position, loosen the fitting at the bottom of the tilt cylinder (top one) but do not disconnect. Loose enough to leak air and a little of hydraulic fluid. Now ran the motor in the up position and you should see or hear air escaping off the loose fitting. Stop the motor as soon as you see solid hydraulic oil leaking off the loose fitting. And you should start seeing the trim cylinder go up.

 

[Jiggz]

As soon as you see the tilt cylinder move up. Stop the motor and re-tighten the loosened fitting. Cycle the system from full down to full up about 3~5 times to bleed if off completely.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Motor down.
​Fill till it won't take anymore.
Then cycle UP and see if it moves.
Then cycle down.

These are self bleeding and don't need the lines opened to bleed.

Then if it don't move?

Make sure the hyd. lines are hooked right.
boatsdotnet has parts breakdown that show the way the lines are hooked up.
You can hook up one wrong and NOTHING!!

 

[Glenn Iverson]

Did what you said but no dice. I'm a one man show right now so I had to operate the trim slightly then run back to check the lines. What came out of the line was pink & frothy so the motor must be turning the pump. trim piston did not budge. I think my problem is I bought a Chinese substitute that does not work! (TRM8000) I've searched for a used Prestolite but cannot find one. So if it has to be aftermarket can you recommend one that may actually work? I would rebuild the old one that I had but I already lost some ball bearings, springs etc because I can't seem to leave well enough alone lol.

 

[Glenn Iverson]

And also thank you all for passing on your excellent knowledge to myself and others that are new to this.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Trouble with extra fingers.
​They just seem to undo the wrong things.
The bearings and springs probably won't go back together right, EVER!!

From what I understand the pump mechanism(what you took apart) doesn't need any kind of work.
The bottom where the seals are is what needs replacing.

Not sure where you bought the pump but if you used e-bay or PayPal you are covered.
PP got me 500$ back from a company that wouldn't cover their sale.

 

[Jiggz]

Absolutely true, Asian made VB are POS! You will be better off getting a used original Prestolite VB even a non-working one (i.e. leaking by) and just rebuilding it. When you rebuild the VB there is absolutely no need to open it entirely. Instead, just dismount it from the motor and reservoir (if it is still connected). Take it on a bench and dismount the spool valves (there are two of them). There are two types, one with recessed hex heads screwed in and the other with circ clips.

For specific instructions and parts list read the sticky post on top of the forum page.

There's currently a whole system of original Force T&T at the bidding store.

 

[Glenn Iverson]

Thanks again for the info. My Prestolite VB had the recessed hex screw on one side. Very different looking than the aftermarket version. I have a guy looking thru his force motor boneyard for me. You mean bidding store for this site? If I cant find a used prestolite have you heard anything good about API aftermarket parts? Out of Florida.

 

[SkiDad]

you can get new ones built in the USA for around 250.00 that are not the cheap ones - if interested PM and I will look up the info - i was looking into myself before I rebuilt mine - the rebuild was a little daunting but it works fine now.

 

[Jiggz]

The bidding store when mentioned here is the ebaystore.

 

[Glenn Iverson]

Thanks a bunch for the help guys. I will hopefully find out what the mechanic found in his Force boneyard soon. Just thought I would mention when I first installed this aftermarket VB the motor was in full down position the whole time. I hit the up button mostly but also hit the down button briefly a few times. The down button had a different noise almost one of resistance. I could not lift the motor manually unless I relieved the pressure in the far aft hydraulic line closest to the transom. I since took the VB out & reinstalled it but have only hit the up button. I can lift the motor manually. Both times there was no movement when the tilt trim was engaged.

 

[Glenn Iverson]

I am also having to do this in the water as I can not trailer the boat in this condition. Being very careful not to contaminate the oil with water as well as our lake. Using buckets to catch any drips.

 

[jerryjerry05]

You sure the lines are on right???

 

[Arawak]

I had a similar problem. Bought a new VB on Amazon, would go up but not down. Put my old one back and it works correctly.

Sending mine back, but might get another. I think there are quality issues with the new ones, but there are plenty of reports of people getting them to work fine so they couldn't have a 100% dud rate

 

[Glenn Iverson]

No Title

You sure the lines are on right???

Hooked up lines according to diagram shown. Although it shows the fourth hole from left as the dummy mine is the third from left. However the order of the lines is the same.

Arawak, I read your thread earlier on your VB that got me suspicious of mine. I also bought mine on Amazon. I got a bit nervous when I read "made in Taiwan" on the box it came in. But I also talked to a T&T rebuilder that uses that same one with no problems. (TRM8000)

 

[SkiDad]

i dug up my email and it looks like the company you mentioned - see snippet of email below from API - i was asking him about the quality vs the cheap ones. I never bought one as I rebuilt mine but in case you go that route.

The components for the VB112N-4 are imported from Taiwan and we assemble and test the valve body in our factory. We are located in Fort Lauderdale, FL and we have sold thousands of the VB112N-4 valve bodies. This is a very high quality part.
All of our parts come with a 1 year warranty.

Let me know if I can help you any further.

Brian Schneider
API Marine​

 

[Jiggz]

The lines seems to be connected correctly. If you still want to verify if the VB is actually faulty do the following tests:
You will need a brass plug to plug one of the "raise" holes. Using a stand or wood block, raise the motor up all way. Disconnect tubes if required to do this.

Disconnect the raise tubing of the tilt cylinder from the VB and plug the hole it connects to. Cap it if you wanted, recommended. Next, with all other tubings connected and one plugged, and motor manually raised all the way up, engage the T&T in the up position. Expected results is for the trim cylinder rod to rise. There is no load on the trim cylinder hence it should rise easily.

If it doesn't rise, then try engaging the T&T in the down position. Again, expected result is for the trim cylinder to rise. If the trim cylinder rises with this action, it means the control circuit is obviously wires backwards. But if the trim cylinder still doesn't move or rise, then the VB is obviously not working accordingly.

I understand the motor is still in the water. To troubleshoot properly, you need to manually raise the motor and use a trailering bracket to tow it back on land. This will require at least two people to do this. It's just very hard to troubleshoot with the motor in the water.