9 DB Antennas

JAZZedBW

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jan 3, 2003
Messages
186
Me and my mom bought my dad a pair of 9 DB's for xmas. My dad had them before on previous big boats. We have a 42 Carver and we are putting the antennas on there. Now does anyone know how to properly mount them on an aft-cabin? Or mount them, and somehow secure them to the radar arch? Please help if anyone knows!<br /><br />JAZZ ;)
 

rons boat

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Dec 28, 2002
Messages
210
Re: 9 DB Antennas

Any VHF antenna should be mounted high and in the clear. Think of the figure eight sideways and do that all the way around the antenna. Most marine antennas do not require a conterpoise like an automobile antenna, so mounting on a metalic surface is not usually required, but is acceptable if desired. You mentioned a pair of antennas and I am a bit confused of how they can be used(connected) together. As a radio engineer the only way two antennas could be used together is in a properly spaced(very critical) gain array which probably is not suitable for a marine installation. Putting two antennas which are connected together in the same field would cause the signals to combine and subtract in a unpredictable manner. I will not go into phase angles and other complicated matters, but I hope that you understand that two antennas connected together would perform such that communications in some directions would be impossible. This is due to interaction of the two signals being received (transmitted) by seperated antennas located at different points in space. Sounds complicated but think of how some waves on the ocean combine and others cancel out. A Decibel is a logrithmic expression which needs to be used and understood when we talk about antennas. Start with a 3 dB antenna which multiplies the strength of the signal on the horizon by a factor of two over a theortical explosion of that signal in all directions. You know like a fireworks burst in the sky. So a 3 dB antenna just doubles the signal strength in a given direction (along the horizon). After all, we don't need to send the signal from the boat straignt up into the sky or straight down into the ocean so we just take that part of the signal that would be wasted and direct it out on the horizon where we would like it to go. Then we use decibels to describe performance: 4 X for 6dB, and about 8X for a 9dB gain, to describe an antennas effectiveness at redirecting the signal from our undesireable fireworks blast. If a second antenna of 9 db is added to another 9 dB gain antenna this could only produce a theortical gain of another 3 dB or doubling of the signal(not 18 dB). But unfortuantely when we connect two antennas together we get some very undesireable results. Nature is complex and those signals do add sometimes but they also can subtract sometimes depending on direction and spacing of the two connected antennas. Rememeber we are only trying to get another doubling of the signal on the horizon with the second antenna (3dB) and in practice we end up doing a lot more damage in our attempt. Deep nulls can result that mean communication in a given direction is actually cancelled out. My suggestion is to mount the one 9 dB gain antenna as high as possible and try to place it above any metalic hull objects which can interfere with the antenna signal going out to the horizon. Fiberglass objects don't provide any attenuation and can be ignored. Radomes for radar several feet away don't cause any big problems as they present a small profile. Metalic masts several feet away, say 6 feet or so don't provide any real problems either, as they only slightly alter the pattern. I have not forgotten about the second antenna and it too can be used very effectively in a proper installation. Just don't connect it to the other antenna. It should also be mounted in a good location on the boat using the same guidelines as the other antenna. Then a switch (coaxial) could be used to switch the VHF radio to either of the antennas, one at a time, to take advantage of their unique location. An antenna switch with these postitions would provide a good setup: Antenna one, Antenna two. Now you have something very useful. Each antenna has a slightly different pattern with an advantage, due to mounting location. that could be recognized, noticed and used to the Captains' advantage. And best of all this arrangement produces no dead spots like the two array system. And finally the answer to your orignal question. This is the best utilization of a fine Christmas present. <br /> Other helpful info: A good coaxial switch is not expensive and even a marine quality CB one from your marine supplier or radio shack will provide good peformance. Silver plated is best but not mandantory, new or used, doesn't matter. I use a good quality "Bird" Watt meter to check antennas when I am through with an installation but have found CB meters are good enough to find VHF antenna installation problems. I always check SWR or standing wave ratio before pronouncing a job finished. You can borrow a CB SWR bridge from a friend if you don't want to buy one at Radio Shack. Remember to identify youself when you go key down on the mike and always use an unused non-emergency channel for your test. Good Luck
 

rons boat

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Dec 28, 2002
Messages
210
Re: 9 DB Antennas

I was so concerned about the two antenna thing, I forgot to talk about the mounts. Use standard mounts available at any Marine Supply. Drill as required and bolt on with stainless bolts, washers and nuts. The same mounts will work just about anywhere on the boat as they are adjustable. Use marine quality sealant to keep the elements from getting thru drilled holes into areas where damage can occur. If you decide to place both antennas on the arch, two mounts, one for each antenna, seperated by the width of the arch should be fine. The radar (check with radar mfg for min distances)) usually does not have a problem with low profile VHF antennas and simply ignors nearby objects because the time the radar signal(pulse) comming from the radome gets to the nearby object and returns back to the radar receiver the system has not yet had time to switch back to the receive mode. Radar can either send or receive at any one time and it takes a fraction of time for the switching from pulse transmitting to pulse receiving to take place. Radars are blind for this reason for hundreds of feet.
 

Boatist

Rear Admiral
Joined
Apr 22, 2002
Messages
4,552
Re: 9 DB Antennas

JAZZedBW<br />I agree with Ron but I do not think I would even mount the second antenna. As far as mounting the 9 DB antenna use a heavy stainless steel mount then a few feet up add a antenna standoff for support.<br /><br />With the 9DB antenna very important you mount it Vertical, (straight up) not leaning in any direction. If it is leaning in any direction will actually perform worse than a 3 db antenna. This is because the 9DB antenna has a very narrow horz band that it transmits in. Should work ok on a boat that size but not reccommended on smaller boats that rock more.<br /><br />When time to check the Standing wave I would not recommend a CB SWR bridge, most only rated up to 30 mhz and can give false readings at 156 mhz. Get one from local ham store for the VHF bands, 2 meters to 400 mhz. With a half wave antenna like the 9DB normally do not have to do any tuning but it will confirm that cable not shorted in the connector or where it go thru your deck. Do check in the 1 watt mode while talking to or calling another station.
 

JAZZedBW

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jan 3, 2003
Messages
186
Re: 9 DB Antennas

Thank you for all the info!<br /><br />We bought 2 antennas becuase we have 2 radios. One on the bridge and one down in the cabin. Thus, 2 9-DB antennas. I am aware that they both have to be verticle. <br /><br />These are the 9-DB's that Sportfishermen use on their boats. Its fiberglass and stainless. Very nice antennas. 23ft. <br /><br />JAZZ ;)
 

rons boat

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Dec 28, 2002
Messages
210
Re: 9 DB Antennas

Sounds like you have it figured out. Sorry I misunderstood the configuration. Two antennas, two radios, sounds good to me and no switch to buy. Boatist, I have a bunch of swr bridges including the UHF and Vhf type. Most of the cheap CB bridges resgister very close to the bird thru VHF and as you said you are really only trying to confirm that there are no serious connection problems since you can't tune the antenna.
 

Boatist

Rear Admiral
Joined
Apr 22, 2002
Messages
4,552
Re: 9 DB Antennas

JAZZedBW<br />Did you get the Shakespeare Galaxy 5309-R antenna, a great antenna. If so that is a great 1/2 wave antenna and SWR will be ok as long as get connector on without shorting. It does require a upper stand off braket for support.<br /><br />Ron Davis<br />My CB SWR bridge reads almost 3 to 1 in the marine band but then it is a very old cheap one I got from allied radio back in the 60's, works ok for CB and 11 metters. My other VHF MFJ SWR bridge also an old cheap one reads 1.1 to 1. Like you I always check when done just to be sure.
 

rons boat

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Dec 28, 2002
Messages
210
Re: 9 DB Antennas

Boatist, sounds like we are the same vintage. My old Allied bridge reads pretty good thru VHF. My Call is K5JEM, but not active any more, hardly. I sold my FM radio Stations two years ago which I built. Enjoy teaching, playing, flying, boating, and just hanging out here when the weather is bad.
 

Boatist

Rear Admiral
Joined
Apr 22, 2002
Messages
4,552
Re: 9 DB Antennas

Ron Davis<br />KI6SB here and all my gear is 2 meters except one radio that is a 2 meter/ 440 rig. Also have a HF receiver but no transmiter. We are not very active either today, but Wife and one Son also Hams. Still use radios when we go to the coast to check in with home now and then. About a 100 mile trip but thanks to a good open repeater on a moutain top works ok. Cells do not work when get 15 miles out to sea here.
 

rons boat

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Dec 28, 2002
Messages
210
Re: 9 DB Antennas

KI6SB/K5jEM thought so, WX here is lousy OM, but hope to be on My 23 Compac as soon as WX breaks. See ya later I mean 73
 
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