911 Master Mind trained in Baghdad

[wvit100]

Re: 911 Master Mind trained in Baghdad

Up until the Gulf War almost nobody in this country had even heard of Saddam. Most people here knew that Iran & Iraq were fighting a war and that the United State was supporting Iraq because Iran was trying to spread the Muslim revolution in the Middle East. All this time Saddam was violently putting down any movement against him in Iraq. Our govenment was supporting him throughout all this his early murder and violence.<br /><br />All of a sudden Saddam invades Kuwait. He had told the US that he was going to do this prior to beginning the invasion so he was suprised by our reaction to this. Now the government of the US tells everyone what a bad violent leader Saddam is, and all this is true. What they fail to mention is that throughout all this violence he has been under our wing. Now everyone says yes he is a bad man and we should hate him.<br /><br />Don't be sheep. We were lead into this war by falsehoods and halftruths. Now Bush is using capturing Saddam as some sort of justification for invading a country and setting up a puppet government.

 

[oddjob]

Re: 911 Master Mind trained in Baghdad

vwit,<br /><br />Bull hockey! however some of what your C&P claims is true...keep diggin maybe you can sort it out correctly eventually..

 

[KennyKenCan]

Re: 911 Master Mind trained in Baghdad

wvit100,<br /><br />The only message you are sending in your posts, is that as long as George W. Bush is in the White House, the United States can do no good.<br /><br />And you must believe then, that the attacks on New York and the Pentagon were the Presidents fault too?<br /><br />It really would be appreciated if you could post something useful, not anti-Bush retoric, its getting extremly boring!

 

[LadyFish]

Re: 911 Master Mind trained in Baghdad

vwit, with all due respect, everyone has a right<br />to their own opinion but they don't have a right<br />to their own facts. Both sides are great at <br />putting the spin on things, just be sure to keep <br />that in mind.<br /><br />We should never rely on just a single source of <br />information for matters involving this country and<br />its leader(s).<br /><br />We should always do our homework and exhaust every<br />resource available to us, study it, digest it and <br />think long and hard about where that source of <br />information is coming from before forming a strong opinion.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: 911 Master Mind trained in Baghdad

hello<br /> yep kinda what wvit100 said. I dont fault bush for going to war I fault him cause either he lied or was lied to and either way its time for someone to bow out. while yall are busting chops on facts, who trained Osama? he was a cool dude friend as long as he was killing pesky rooskies. and how did the sha of Iran get F-14 tomcats? there is still about 80 of them somewhere over there. we sold them to him in the 70's which was amazing because at the time it was THE most advanced fighter in the world. had the capeability of firing at 6 incoming targets at the same time. our foriegn policies is why we are hated outside our borders not our people. everytime I travel I engoy discussions with people that wonder why our policys are just lies. I tell them I dunno I just fix things, go ask the cherokees,sioux or shawnee and creeks how good the word and treaty of a us govenment is.<br />my country I love its my government I fear.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: 911 Master Mind trained in Baghdad

Who trainned whom and who supplied whom is irrelevant. What matters are the facts of the last decade not the last 1,000 years. Heck why don't we just bring everything back to the garden of eden? What makes sense are the facts as we find them today. And it is WAY TOO soon to assume the President was lied to or lied. The facts are not all yet out.<br /><br />Bin Laden was fighting the Soviet Army. He wasn't flying airliners into Russian civilian buildings. At some point he went from a freedom fighter to terrorist attacking civilians men, women and children. If you can't see the difference then no amount of discussion will ever help you see the truth. <br /><br />Alliances are most often temporary things. They happen when important common interests align. They rarely are absolute and last forever. Just look at the divorce rate <br /><br />At the time we dealt with Saddam he was fighting the Iranians which were our bigger enemy at the time. And don't forget, we also supplied the Iranians. Two bad groups slaughtering each other. <br /><br />Saddam evolved into the monster he is today. He dedcided he was going to be the modern day Saladin and unite the Arab world by force and drive the Jews into the Sea and bring the world to its knees by controlling a big piece of the world's oil supply. <br /><br />He crossed many lines but in 1991 he crossed his final line and we acted with the entire world. From that day forawrd we became his #1 enemy.<br /><br />Now we have freed 25M people from the fiat of a mass murdered. We will leave that country and its people a lot better than we found them. In the end, we are safer, and the world is safer for having acted.<br /><br />Consume all the information you can. Be a critical thinker. Think objectively. Put your self in the shoes of the averadge Iraqi who has lost at least 1 family member at the hands of Saddam. That has a loved one burried in an unmarked mass grave, with hands tied behind their back and a bullet hole in their skull, and ask your self if you are better off today than you were a year ago. <br /><br />Don't let your dislike of the current President keep you from seeing the truth.<br /><br />Kenny - Thanks for the kind words. I am Glad to be back!

 

[rodbolt]

Re: 911 Master Mind trained in Baghdad

hello<br /> yep gotta agree with ya there Ralph. although osama was and has always been a terroist and killer of women and childrern we just turned a blind eye as long as we were arming him and he was killing pesky rooskies. but our govt has a very long history of this. the only thing I feel is that the president lied to ME. I appreciate the fact that Iraq now has a chance at a decent govt. I dont know if it will be a democracy or not. I dont think the culture is ready for that but Saddam was a very nasty person and should have been taken out in 91. but in 91 we had no plans for a replacement govt and the war went so quickly it caught us off guard. I dont bash President Bush, I just dont like it when someone pee's on my leg and tells me its raining.<br /> as far as the Towers, all our security drills proved that this was going to happen. not if but when. none of us ever dreamed about the towers directly but we did run some scenarios of a commercial airliner being crashed or blown up over the pentagon,whitehouse or a major city. the marines and the security training did not help my keyboarding skills but did teach us if someone wants to die and take some others with him/her the best you can hope for is he aint close to you when he does. the very nature of our free society makes us a target and we dont strike first so we get a bloody nose from time to time. we have the finest most highly trained and motivated military on the planet bar none. if you dont belive it go on down to the closest major airport and hang out at the USO.buy an airman,or soldier,sailor or marine lunch and chat. I do it once a month or so when I am coming or going. like me not all agree with why we are there. all agree that we should be there, not all agree with president Bush but all will give their life at his orders. I just hope he orders wisely.<br /> good luck to all and keep posting

 

[SCO]

Re: 911 Master Mind trained in Baghdad

I agree the US has always backed one despot or another to advance our own interests. The Iranians were against us in a big way during Carters administration and since so Iraq was a good choice at te time. Backing Afghanistan may have put the nail in the coffin of the USSR, a huge threat to us always. This isn't so much about morality as it is national defense, but I do think we are moral, and we people are the USA. Sounds like you are buying the great satan message. What's your answer Wvit, 60's style revolt against the establishment? We as a Country might not be able to survive that today if it caught fire.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: 911 Master Mind trained in Baghdad

Well, If you are "mad" at the US for ever having backed Saddam then you have to be really mad at France, Germany and Russia since they were backing Saddam right up to the war and during the war in the case of the Russians. Remember how they were sending in brand new high tech night vision equipment? I have seen video of stockpiles of munnintions with made in France on them and recent date codes....

 

[plywoody]

Re: 911 Master Mind trained in Baghdad

I am curious. How exactly are we safer now with Saddam gone? What specific threat did he pose to us?<br /><br />And how does fighting insurgents over there preclude Alqaida from launching attacks over here, or to our other allies? He had a few missles capable of going 100 km, but nothing to arm them with, and he had no air force of any sort, and was boxed in a no-fly zone anyway. No one, including Israel, felt a particularly compelling threat from Saddam when we went to war.<br /><br />The question of whether we should have gone to war at this point is a moot one, of course. Now the challenge is what do we do now, and what happens next. The question of whether we are safer now has yet to be answered, and will in large part be determined by the ultimate outcome in Iraq, and what kind of government is formed, and what kind of internal and international support it gets.<br /><br />This country has pulled some boneheaded maneuvers in this part of the world in Saddam's time--some of those have been documented in this thread, but one of the biggest was after the last Gulf war, when former president Bush encouraged rival leaders to stand up and lead an uprising to overthrow Saddam, and then inexplicably, we allowed Saddam to maintain his weapons and his helicopter gunship fleet, and allowed him to fly them unopposed. He of course made short order, with a massive firepower advantage, with this uprising, and slaughtered them.<br /><br />It is of course a good reason why the Iraqis are not particularly trusting of us today.<br /><br />Now our planning for post war Iraq could best be described as confused, and it is hard to imagine a wonderful outcome on this, especially if we continue to insist on going it alone with no help.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: 911 Master Mind trained in Baghdad

You keep asking the same questions and getting the same answers. You know them, you just don't like them. So let's move to more recent data shall we?<br /><br />Let's see how intellectually honest you can be. If it is proven, beyond a doubt, that Atta was trained in Baghdad by Saddam and Abu Nidal. Will you then admit we are safer? (well we in the US anyway, Canadians were never in any real danger)<br /><br />If it is proven that Saddam was involved with the insurgency will you admit American troops are safer and therefore, America safer?<br /><br />Like Lieberman said to Dean, if you had your way Saddam would be in power today instead of in Prison and the mass graves would continue to be filled and the risks that to America from mass murdering terrorist attacks would still exists to the same extent.<br /><br />There are 60 countries helping us with Iraq - no not France, Germany and Russia. They were too concerned with the money they were making off the butcher. Those 3 countries do not the world make. You can keep telling the "go it alone big lie" but informed people know better. We gave those 3 countries every opportunity to stand with us and instead they stabbed us in the back. If the French had stood by us in the Security Council we may never have had to invade. They made war inevitable with their threat of veto and lobbying African countries and others to not stand with us. Saddam may have gone into exile quietly. They bare large responsibility for what happened

 

[JoeW]

Re: 911 Master Mind trained in Baghdad

I'm continually amazed at the number of people who have such a strong negative opinion about the launching of the war in Iraq, yet who were so indifferent, and silent during the campaign in Yogoslovia against Slobodan Milosevic. Between Milosevic and Hussein, which was the greater tyrant? What is the primary difference between these two campaigns? Was Yugoslovia, in any way, a threat to the United States? I believe that the only difference is that the Yugoslovian campaign was launched by a liberal president and supported by a liberal press. <br />I don't believe the opposition to the war in Iraq is about Iraq at all, nor is it about terrorism. It's about George Bush. I'm curious to understand just what it is about this man that liberals hate so much. Why does this man represent such a threat to the liberal establishment. <br />I live in probably the most liberal state in the union, California. I've attended one of the most liberal schools in the country, University of San Francisco. My father was a die hard Democrat from the FDR era. I can understand those who loved and followed FDR. For the life of me, I cannot understand the liberals of today. Today, when I ask such questions of liberals, I'm met with silence, or worse, unintelligible rhetoric.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: 911 Master Mind trained in Baghdad

Well said joew94th.<br /><br />To answer your question, here is my theory why he is hated so much. They think he stole the election. They think he is stupid. They hate the fact he has been so successful and has so reversed the liberal tide. He cleaned their clocks in the midterm elections and took both houses. It is driving them mad beyond words. When leaders of the Dem party begin to demonize a US President and spout conspiracy theory after consipracy theory, you have got to believe it comes from pure fear of being marginalized and never returning to power. The louder they yell and the more they demonize the worse things get for them.

 

[oddjob]

Re: 911 Master Mind trained in Baghdad

joew94th <br /><br />Good point, the thought had crossed my mind,thanks for binging it back. <br /><br />Answer to your question IMO.....He makes good on what he says he will do. And he doesnt take a public opinion poll before he makes a decision on domestic or foriegn policy. Hes not afraid to lead based on what he said he said he would during his campaine. <br />He's the read deal and the dem/libs/media cannot swallow it. So they do what they always have done in the past, demonize...the more he succeeds, the more they are flippin stir-crazy over him. <br /><br />Edit: Welcome back Ralph,...take the wheel and let me get out of your way..

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: 911 Master Mind trained in Baghdad

And they might as well get ready, cause he's the deal in '04.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: 911 Master Mind trained in Baghdad

No way OJ - you gotta put your thoughts up here too!

 

[oddjob]

Re: 911 Master Mind trained in Baghdad

Your so fast or I'm so slow it looks as though I poorly copied your taking point . And its not the first time..