98 Mercury 115 hp starter, battery, solenoid, issues. HELP it wont even start now

[bankbuster]

Re: 98 Mercury 115 hp starter, battery, solenoid, issues. HELP it wont even start no

sorry guys...I should have noted the black ground wire shown above was not tightened down as I had just removed it to inspect its condition. After seeing the burnt underside of the rectifier, i just put it back so I could take a picture (above) and everyone could see exactly what i was talking about and its location. It was, and now is, tight again. I guess I will attempt the tournament tomorrow.... Well its after midnight so technically, today! I hope it works out. Not sure if it will charge the battery....I guess I'll find out. I"ll post again sometime late sunday. good luck to me!

 

[CharlieB]

Re: 98 Mercury 115 hp starter, battery, solenoid, issues. HELP it wont even start no

The ignition system has a minimum cranking speed of 300 RPM or the stator will not generate sufficient voltage to fire the spark plugs.

Any poor connection will reduce cranking speed and cause heating of that connection. Since you have cleaned the starter, check to be sure ALL cable connections are cleaned bright and tight, BOTH ends, and the starter cable.

Poor connection within the starter solenoid can be checked using a decent set of battery jumper cables, clamp one end on the positive post of the battery and hold the other end against the starter lug, if the engine cranks faster than when using the key switch the solenoid is poor and should be replaced.

 

[Lone Duck]

Re: 98 Mercury 115 hp starter, battery, solenoid, issues. HELP it wont even start no

The ignition system has a minimum cranking speed of 300 RPM or the stator will not generate sufficient voltage to fire the spark plugs.

Any poor connection will reduce cranking speed and cause heating of that connection. Since you have cleaned the starter, check to be sure ALL cable connections are cleaned bright and tight, BOTH ends, and the starter cable.

Poor connection within the starter solenoid can be checked using a decent set of battery jumper cables, clamp one end on the positive post of the battery and hold the other end against the starter lug, if the engine cranks faster than when using the key switch the solenoid is poor and should be replaced.

ehhyupp!

 

[bankbuster]

Re: 98 Mercury 115 hp starter, battery, solenoid, issues. HELP it wont even start no

Ok....I launched boat early to do some testing. Started and stopped it 7-8 times at least. I tried every scenerio.....on then off....on and idle for 5-10 min....off 10 min.....Did a quick run at almost WOT....tried everything and all went perfect! At official launch I was off to the races! I ran about 10-15 to my first spot. Ran about 54 mph all the way there....slowed down....let it idle for about 30 seconds just to hear it and then I shut it off. Ran/acted perfect!. I fished for an hour or so and it was time to make another run....NO START! Tried a few more times over a couple hours or so with no luck. Had to be towed back to ramp. I fished the rest of day useing trolling motor near ramp while trying the motor throughout the remainder of day....Never did start again. So...?
CharlieB...I want to do the solenoid test. Please bare with me on this as I had a battery blow up on me about 15 years ago while I was installing a stereo and amplifier in a car. Needless to say I am a nervous wreck anytime it comes to batteries and/or wiring! So....Take one end of jumper cable and hook to pos. post of starting battery and hold the other end on pos. nut on starter itself (located towards bottom of starter)??? Right?? Boy I see sparks flying already! lol. Also....do I leave everything mounted and hooked up just as it is...battery cables and all??? I really dont think I am getting the 300 RPMs that you say I need...maybe close...but not enough. I started thinking.....it seems that over the last few weeks that when it has started it has done so when battery is at 100%. Even at 90+% I dont think it has started. FYI...Its always at least....85%. I dont let it drain under that. Since all the testing I am always putting it back on charger to try and keep it at 100%. but just as an observation I think its always been after a full charge that it starts. So MAYBE what is happening is....Since my rectifier burnt out (sometime over the past month or so) my battery is not getting recharged while on the lake and im only getting 5-10 starts from the battery before it drops enough juice to keep me just under that 300 RPMs. Just a thought. I will do some testing with a battery at 85% and then at 100% to see. I want to check taht solenoid first. Thanks guys!

 

[bankbuster]

Re: 98 Mercury 115 hp starter, battery, solenoid, issues. HELP it wont even start no

Ok....i charged battery overnight...just checked it at 100%. Hooked it up...boat started immediately. So, I will try this throughout the day and as soon as it DOESNT start...I wil check the % of juice on that battery and immediately hook up another 100% battery to see if it starts. If so I assume this will narrow down the problem of this dang starting issue! I will also do the solenoid test after a reply. I'll update with details later today.

Just to note/remind...I have 98 Mercury (Tracker Series) 115 hp 2+2 2-stroke outboard. Battery is a NEW Bass Pro XPS 550 Series (550 cranking amps). Starter was a real mess and armatures were filthy lots of dirt/crud and even had some type green film/deposits on them. All cleaned a few weeks ago but I guess it still could be a concern.....not sure on that??? Rectifier is fried.....Im pretty certain it is no longer functioning. New one is on the way. "When" is does start.....motor runs strong...runs about 56-58 mph...... Idle may be a tad low....but otherwise....smmmoooootthh.

 

[bankbuster]

Re: 98 Mercury 115 hp starter, battery, solenoid, issues. HELP it wont even start no

Well....I guess I will wait until I can afford to take it in. I just cant figure it out with the limited knowledge I have. Motor started all day yesterday until last night....finally it DIDNT start. I first checked for spark....I had NO spark at the plugs. Battery was at 93%. I put in a 100% battery and still NO start. Seems now that if its even a tad bit warmed up thats when it doesnt like to start. But again I cant find anything consistent when trying to start, test, ect....so...... Im lost at this point. New rectifier was deliverd today. Not sure how to even hook that up! The OLD rec. has 5 wires coming out of it and 1 black wire (ground) going TO it (mounted at bolt on top of rec.). The new rec. has 6 wires. The same 5 as old one, plus the ground. So do I use the ground on the new one and mount to top of rec. or do I use the old ground wire and cut off the new one, or do i connect the old and new..? Does it even matter? I'll get pics up later...its pouring outside right now. Ahhh....ill just have the shop do all that too. Anyway If/when I get it going I will try to update in hopes that I save someone this headache....thanks and good boating to all!

 

[Bosunsmate]

Re: 98 Mercury 115 hp starter, battery, solenoid, issues. HELP it wont even start no

grounds a ground. Id ground them both

 

[bankbuster]

Re: 98 Mercury 115 hp starter, battery, solenoid, issues. HELP it wont even start no

Yep...Thats just what I did Bosunsmate....just grounded both of them so new rectifier is installed. I just wasnt thinking clearly earlier....was letting it get the best of me. Anyway, it started first try today (before I installed new rec) and did so a few times. I decided to go ahead and put in the new rec. and it started and ran fine for the 2-3 minutes. I shut it of because Im at home and only have the muffs on it. Anyway, dont know where to go from here. Just wait until it DOESNT start again i guess. Or, maybe start a new thread titled "intermittent start and intermittent spark to plugs"...?

 

[CharlieB]

Re: 98 Mercury 115 hp starter, battery, solenoid, issues. HELP it wont even start no

Pull the lanyard so the motor will NOT start.

Have a partner ready to crank the motor.

Rig the one jumper cable to the battery + and you stand ready to connect the other end to the starter at the cable connection.

As helper cranks the motor LISTEN to the speed that it turns, immediately connect the jumper cable while helper is cranking and LISTEN, did the starter speed up or remain the same speed?

If it sped up then replace the solenoid.

Hook the battery charger up and recharge what you just used from the battery.

Remember to reconnect the lanyard when you want to start the motor. (Lots of us made that mistake loooong ago).

 

[bankbuster]

Re: 98 Mercury 115 hp starter, battery, solenoid, issues. HELP it wont even start no

Thanks CharlieB....really appreciate the details on solenoid test. I did complete test and NO change in speed of starter.....so I assume solenoid is good? I have noticed that when I turn the key the first turn of motor seems to drag just a tad....just a fraction of a second....then motor seems to crank normal (battery at 100%). Dont know if thats an issue. I still dont think Im always getting the 300 RPMs...? Maybe bad starter??? Just to note: ALL connections are VERY BRIGHT and TIGHT! It started last night and this morning but now wont start. Im sure it will start sometime today. I still cant find anything consistent about when it does and doesnt start. What else should I try before buying a starter?

 

[CharlieB]

Re: 98 Mercury 115 hp starter, battery, solenoid, issues. HELP it wont even start no

How are you determining that the battery is at 100% capacity?

Hydrometer readings of each cell will clearly show state of charge.

A load test using a real variable load carbon pile tester then follow up with another hydrometer test and comparing readings to the previous readings will clearly show any defect.

Simple voltage readings can be helpful, but when tracking down a repetitive slow cranking problem the battery is often suspect.

Has the starter been taken apart, sanded and cleaned the commutator to ensure good brush contact, brushes long enough the springs provide adequate contact pressure to the comm, lightly lubed the bushings??????

 

[bankbuster]

Re: 98 Mercury 115 hp starter, battery, solenoid, issues. HELP it wont even start no

Hi Guys....I did some more testing. I dont have the testers/meters for the battery test so I took it to local parts store for a load test. Batttery checks out good. I never did get it to start yesterday but this morning it fired right up. Keep in mind I did not even recharge the battery like I usually do. So, I think its safe to say its NOT a battery issue. Agree?? Its NOT the solenoid. Agree?? Ive checked the kill switch(bypassed it) and it has started so I assume its good. Agree? Maybe its itermittent?? Not sure if thats possible? I dont think its possible that coil packs could be an issue....I dont know if they can be intermittent and even if they could, I doubt all 4 would be out "intermittently" at the same time. I say that because I have checked all 4 plugs and when it DOESNT start....I DONT have spark. When it DOES start...well obviously I have spark. The starter was taken appart and cleaned. Before I cleaned it, it ddrrraaagggedd real bad! Took a few turns of the key to get the starter to spin good. Motor would almost always start AFTER a few tries. After cleaning, it seems to turn MUCH better but does NOT start near as often. Im not an expert on the starter, I took it apart, cleaned real good, sanded and lighty lubed bwhere needed. Magnets looked fine. Armitures were UGLY DIRTY. Comm wasnt to bad. Brushes were about 1/4" long. Thats a rough measurement as I dont know what they are suppose to be. I just figured a cleaning couldnt hurt it. It seemed to help it spin....just not start the motor. So, any ideas before I pay a fortune on a starter. I found some off brands for under $100 vs. the real deal at $300+. Just wondering if I should go with off brand just to see if thats the problem. Even if it goes out in a year or so thats fine....Id be happy to pay $300 for the good one only IF i KNEW that IS the problem.

 

[CharlieB]

Re: 98 Mercury 115 hp starter, battery, solenoid, issues. HELP it wont even start no

When you have the 'no spark' immediately disconnect the black wire with the thin Yellow line that connects the switch box to the engine wiring harness, retest for spark. If you now have spark you have an intermittent grounding problem on that B/Y wire somewhere on the boat, suspect the ignition switch NOT un-grounding this wire from the solid black ground wire at the ignition switch.

 

[bankbuster]

Re: 98 Mercury 115 hp starter, battery, solenoid, issues. HELP it wont even start no

ok CharlieB....Im still waiting to do the test on the blk/yellow (kill switch) wire because it started all day yeserday and all today today until now (2:15pm EST). Starter started to drag like the battery was dead so I swapped it with a 100% charged batt. and it fired up no problem. I hooked the previous batt. up to charger and it was at 79%. So it seems it will take at least that to get it started. Should the starter start to drag with a 550 cranking amp battery that still has approx. 80% juice left in it? Just to note...while waiting for it to get the "no spark" i figured I would check all the kill switch wires again. From the kill switch there are 2 wires coming from it...both black w/ yellow. 1 goes to key ignition ground (I assume its ground as there are a couple other black wires on that terminal). The other goes to a different terminal on key ignition and a wire from that same post (another blk/ylw) leads through the wiring harness and back to the switch box. Here are some scenerios I tried just for the heck of it......I tried starting it w/ 1 kill wire UNplugged near the kill switch, (not at the switch box), then just the other wire UNplugged, then both wires UNplugged. It still started everytime. Is that right? The switch does "kill" the motor when all hooked up when I pull laynard. Any thoughts while Im waiting for the "No spark" test? Thank so much guys!

 

[bankbuster]

Re: 98 Mercury 115 hp starter, battery, solenoid, issues. HELP it wont even start no

one more thing. The REGULATOR is what burnt out a few weeks ago and has since been replaced. NOT the rectifier as I called it. So just wondering if the rectifier would have anything to do with all this? I still cant tell if my battery is being charged when running because of all the test starting and never letting it run on muffs for more than a minute or so.

 

[CharlieB]

Re: 98 Mercury 115 hp starter, battery, solenoid, issues. HELP it wont even start no

Every start takes power from the battery lowering the battery voltage. Cranking speed is directly effected by voltage, as battery voltage reduces so does cranking RPM. Once you near that minimum 300 RPM the ignition may not work.

I suspect what is happening is cranking speed reduces too much and the ignition fails, left alone a while the battery 'recovers' a small amount and the starter cranks just fast enough the motor sparks again. Tho it will soon fail again as battery voltage drops.

Charge the battery, repair the charging system. There is nothing wrong with your ignition system.

 

[bankbuster]

Re: 98 Mercury 115 hp starter, battery, solenoid, issues. HELP it wont even start no

I dont know alot about marine repair/troubleshooting but am learning. I do agree.....I think at worst I may need a rectifier and/or a starter. Is there anyway to test the rectifier? Also, I keep leaning towards a bad starter just because I have 4 NEW batteries that I can use to test and it still does NOT start sometimes.....and of course the small lope on the first turn of key....just dont feel thats right. Like I said Im no mechanic though. And repair charging system...regulator is new....stator is new.....what else is there, besides rectifier ?

 

[bankbuster]

Re: 98 Mercury 115 hp starter, battery, solenoid, issues. HELP it wont even start no

I have searched on this site and found a way to test rectifier....on my way to purchase a meter now. Just wondering if a bad rectifier could have been the reason to burn out my regulator....? Be back with updates on test in a bit.

 

[bankbuster]

Re: 98 Mercury 115 hp starter, battery, solenoid, issues. HELP it wont even start no

Getting real close to solving this problem.....! Does anyone know EXACTLY what MODEL my engine is? The serial# is OG100998. I know that most parts are compatable but I would like to be certain of the parts I am/will order. And does this motor have a regulator with a SEPERATE rectifier or is it all in the regulator. I thought part# 17602A was the rec. but....? I need the exact MODEL# to do more research. Thanks.

 

[bankbuster]

Re: 98 Mercury 115 hp starter, battery, solenoid, issues. HELP it wont even start no

I really feel like its the starter....I bought a new one and it should be here by Thurs or Friday. I will update 5 minutes after it is delivered. Thanks again.