Adding brakes and I have a question...

[JASinIL2006]

Hi, I recently bought a boat and trailer, and after reading up on trailering here and doing some calculations, I decided my single axle trailer really ought to have brakes. I picked up a complete kit that will allow me to install electric drum brakes. I realize that drum brakes are not as good as disk, but my boat will not be seeing saltwater, and the budget is still hurting from the boat purchase, so I went with the less expensive solution.

I have decent directions for installing the brakes, but the instructions are a bit sketchy about installing the backing plates to the axle. Specifically, I'm not sure how hard I should tighten bolts that attach the backing plates to the axle; is this something I should using a torque wrench for? Any idea how tight they should be?

Thanks!

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Adding brakes and I have a question...

Without getting anal about it and using a torque wrench ...

They will likely have lock washers under the heads to hold them, Add a spot of locktite if you are the anal type.
They will be loaded in shear, not tension, and they are probably four, 1/2 inch bolts. Way over kill!

Put a proper wrench on them, (A Socket, or a Box, Not an Adjustable), and give them all you can muster.
Wait a few minutes for the stress to turn to strain, then go over them again.

As we like to put it here, "If you are going to Torque them like a Girl, at least torque them like a BIG Girl!"

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: Adding brakes and I have a question...

Well, I have been known to be just a bit anal now and then, but I can skip the torque wrench and just crank on them with a socket. Although I was thinking this might be a good excuse to buy a new tool... guess that will have to wait for my next project.

Thanks!

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Adding brakes and I have a question...

Wait a few minutes for the stress to turn to strain, then go over them again.

LOL...whatever the heck that means! Had lots of strength and materials courses when I was an engineering student and that is a new one.

When in doubt, look it up:
http://www.engineershandbook.com/Tables/torque.htm

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Adding brakes and I have a question...

LOL...whatever the heck that means! Had lots of strength and materials courses when I was an engineering student and that is a new one.

Well if you truly are LOL, then you got the joke and I am sure you know what it meant!

If I have to explain it; It won't be funny!

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Adding brakes and I have a question...

The OP asked a question and you respond with a joke. I guess my point is why even respond if you can't give the guy a reasonable answer.

For all of us that don't have a sense of humor, why not explain what you meant. And don't hide it with your almost invisible font color.

 

[Thalasso]

Re: Adding brakes and I have a question...

The OP asked a question and you respond with a joke. I guess my point is why even respond if you can't give the guy a reasonable answer.

For all of us that don't have a sense of humor, why not explain what you meant. And don't hide it with your almost invisible font color.

Well the same can be asked ,why are you so abrasive and sarcastic when someone says something that doesn’t appeal to you. Maybe you need to lighten up and accept it for what it is. A joke.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Adding brakes and I have a question...

Hopefully the OP got his answer from the engineer handbook link I posted.

I guess its just me but when I post a question in a technical section on a forum, I expect an answer to my question and not a joke.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Adding brakes and I have a question...

I picked up a complete kit that will allow me to install electric drum brakes. I realize that drum brakes are not as good as disk

The issue isn't drum vs disk... Not many boat trailers have electric brakes for a reason. Something about electricity and water... If it isn't too late to change your mind, I'd return that kit and go surge brakes.

(and yes, before someone jumps on me saying they have electric brakes, it can be done. You just have more parts that can go bad, and electrical systems tend to not last as long if you submerge them on a regular basis. Very, very few boat trailers leave the factory with electric brakes.)

 

[lncoop]

Re: Adding brakes and I have a question...

The issue isn't drum vs disk... Not many boat trailers have electric brakes for a reason. Something about electricity and water... If it isn't too late to change your mind, I'd return that kit and go surge brakes.

(and yes, before someone jumps on me saying they have electric brakes, it can be done. You just have more parts that can go bad, and electrical systems tend to not last as long if you submerge them on a regular basis. Very, very few boat trailers leave the factory with electric brakes.)

And another nice thing about surge brakes is they work behind any vehicle.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Adding brakes and I have a question...

More parts to go bad with an electric brake system? Don't think so! No master cylinder, no wheel cylinder, both of which have moving pistons, boots, and a gazillion places for water to get into not to mention corroded brake lines and cracked flex lines. Yup, electrics still have shoes, backing plates and springs like hydraulics, but the magnet puck is a sealed unit and wires are wires. They get dunked on every trailer and most go bad because they are not supported properly, not because they fall apart from being wet. The brake controller is neatly built into the tow vehicle these days, or if it is an add on is nice & dry in the cab and generally fully adjustable for the desired braking action. One big advantage of electrics is the manual control that hydraulics don't have. In sway situation a touch of the manual control will snap the trailer straight without touching the vehicle brakes. Even if the pucks did go bad, they are simple to replace and no rusty bolts or broken bleeder screws to deal with. But then that's just my opinion. And opinions are like butts -- everybody has one.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Adding brakes and I have a question...

But then that's just my opinion. And opinions are like butts -- everybody has one.

yep, although there is something to be said for tried-and-true wisdom, which makes it a little more than opinion. Only two facts that aren't opinion when it comes to boat brakes... Far more manufacturers put surge brakes on, probably 99%, and there are far more vehicles equipped to tow trailers with surge brakes than e-brakes.

From what i've seen, not many trucks come with brake controllers. They come with wiring harnesses already in place to add a controller. Even if 100% of new trucks came with controllers, there are still more vehicles equipped to tow a surge brake trailer, all you need is a hitch!

 

[LippCJ7]

Re: Adding brakes and I have a question...

Trailer lights smoke don't forget trailer lights


I'm back underneath my rock now Carry on

 

[Grandad]

Re: Adding brakes and I have a question...

Even if 100% of new trucks came with controllers, there are still more vehicles equipped to tow a surge brake trailer, all you need is a hitch!

Hence the reason OEM's choose surge brakes. One size fits all, so to speak, so there's less hassle for the dealer. I'm not saying electric or surge is better (I have electric), just that the choice made by the OEM is based on convenience and profit, not necessarily which type is better. - Grandad

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: Adding brakes and I have a question...

For me, electric vs. surge is academic at this point... I've started the installation and I don't think there's any turning back. I did read up on it (mostly on this and another boating forum) before deciding on electric, and it sounded like as long as the application wasn't salt water, drum brakes were OK and electric are OK as long as everything is unplugged before dipping them in the lake.

I'll try to post some pics of my progress and finished work, and I'll be sure to let everyone know if I regret (or not) going with electric.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Adding brakes and I have a question...

Hence the reason OEM's choose surge brakes. One size fits all, so to speak, so there's less hassle for the dealer. I'm not saying electric or surge is better (I have electric), just that the choice made by the OEM is based on convenience and profit, not necessarily which type is better. - Grandad

If that was the case then all travel trailers would also be surge brakes which isn't true. They are 99% electric. For larger travel trailers, the prefered usage is actually electric/hydraulic.

For boat trailers, there can be a huge difference in load from one trip to another depending on fuel and gear load. Electric brakes require some intelligence by the person doing the towing to set the controller gain different for different loads. Surge are self compensating.

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: Adding brakes and I have a question...

I was a bit concerned about that, so I got a controller that seems to make setting the brake boost pretty simple. I''m probably right at the edge of legally need brakes in Illinois, where I live, with a boat+trailer weight in the neighborhood of 2800-3000 pounds (without gear and gas). I figure brakes are, if nothing else, a little extra insurance for me when I'm towing. If I had a bigger rig, I'd probably have looked at more expensive alternatives, but these seem like they'll be good enough, as long as I remember to calibrate them before heading out on the road.

 

[Mischief Managed]

Re: Adding brakes and I have a question...

I swapped surge for electric last season. I am very impressed with electric brakes, they are vastly superior to the surge system they replaced, in both stopping power and stopping distance. I also love the control, especially the ability to apply the brakes while backing down a hill and not apply them while backing up a hill. Also, they are absurdly cheap to buy and maintain.

Mine came with 1/2-20 fasteners. I torqued them to 50 ft-lbs. It's within range for grade B or C fasteners of that size

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: Adding brakes and I have a question...

Well, last night I did the left side hub, and I am surprised how easy it was. The old hub came off easy (old bearings were nice and well-lubed) and the new stuff went on without a hitch. My only mishap was breaking a cotter pin, but even that worked out OK - I was able to make it to the auto parts store 10 minutes before closing! You know fate is smiling on you when that sort of stuff works out.

I still have to complete the right side and hook up the wiring, but so far, so good.

One question, though: one the wheel I completed, when I spin the tire, I can hear the brake shoes just barely rubbing the inside of the drum. The wheel turns easily, so they aren't binding, the pads just seem to be touching as the drum spins (I can hear it as the wheel spins). Is this something needs to be addressed, or is there some sort of auto-adjustment that will happen when the breaks are powered up?

Thanks!

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Adding brakes and I have a question...

You should be using brand new cotter pins after every use.

Also, you need to adjust your drum brakes. Basically, tighten the adjuster until your brakes begin to drag and then loosen just until they don't. There should be a slot on the backing plate where you can slide a brake adjusting tool to turn the adjuster.

I take it you put new bearings into the new drum right? Do you know how to re-pack bearings properly?