Anodes?

ali'i

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Never new about anodes, do I need one?, boat will only be used in saltwater, and trailered home after use, it is a 14' fiberglass hull, motor is a 2000, Evinrude 50hp, mounted on CMC, aluminum, 5" vertical extension since the transom is 15" and the motor is a 20" shaft. There is an anode (I think) that looks like a little rudder, mounted on the motor under the cavitation plate. If that is an anode, do I need any others?, if so, mounted where, and what should it/they me made of, from what I can find, there are several different metals they can be made of. A friend has 2 cap like anodes screwed on the threaded end of his lower engine mounting bolts, but they where there when he bought the boat, and like me, doesn't know there purpose. Just a layman here, so please don't get too technical. Thanks
 

alldodge

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Re: Anodes?

+1^^ Galvanic corrosion happens when a boat is plugged into shore power. Since you don't plug your boat in and leave it in the water, no protection is needed
 

ali'i

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Re: Anodes?

My friends boat is also a 14ft, and like mine, not the kind of boat that would ever be "plugged in" any idea why it would have anodes on the mounting bolts?
 

Chris1956

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Re: Anodes?

If you leave the boat in the water, and someone nearby is plugged into shore power, or there is some other electrical charge in the water, anodes are very necessary. Even polluted water can cause the anodes to corrode due to galvanic activity
 

alldodge

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Re: Anodes?

If you leave the boat in the water, and someone nearby is plugged into shore power, or there is some other electrical charge in the water, anodes are very necessary. Even polluted water can cause the anodes to corrode due to galvanic activity

A boat has no electrical connection to ground or shore power and galvanic activity can occur. I can understand how erosion and chemical corrosion can happen due to the make up of what is in the water, but not where anodes would be able to stop it.

Please, advise on how this can happen? Not saying there isn't a way, I just don't understand how this could happen
 

ali'i

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Re: Anodes?

When being used, boat will only be in water for maybe 5 hours max, always in motion unless beached to go swimming etc, and only at a dock (no power at dock) waiting for ramp space if busy. What will happen if no anode and there is an electrical charge in the water? If the little rudder looking thing under the cavitation plate is an anode, is that all I need?

probably
If you leave the boat in the water, and someone nearby is plugged into shore power, or there is some other electrical charge in the water, anodes are very necessary. Even polluted water can cause the anodes to corrode due to galvanic activity
 

bruceb58

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Re: Anodes?

If there is any steel on your motor or dissimilar metal in general, galvanic corrosion can occur. Not as serious a problem on an outboard since you probably don't have any steel. Its a huge problem on I/Os because of the steel block. If your trim tab is anode material, that will be all you need since its not sitting in the water for extended periods of time.

Even if there is someone plugged into shore power, unless you have a hard wired connection between your boat and shore ground, there won't likely be a problem either.
 
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Chris1956

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Re: Anodes?

Ali'i, You do not need an anode under the circumstances you described. Also, that motor may already have an anode, as a lot of that vintage have them as std equipment. Yours may be on the transom bracket.

AllDodge, Most boats have the battery negative post connected to the motor frame. Therefore, most boats are grounded to the water via the engine. Any stray current in the water, from any source can cause galvanic corrosion. Anodes corrode sooner than the motor, since zinc is more electroactive than aluminum. Does that answer your question?
 

bruceb58

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Re: Anodes?

AllDodge, Most boats have the battery negative post connected to the motor frame. Therefore, most boats are grounded to the water via the engine. Any stray current in the water, from any source can cause galvanic corrosion.
Stray currents have to have a source and a sink. Unless a boat also has a hard connection to shore ground through its own shore power, nothing is going to happen to it since everything(on the floating boat) is at the same potential.
 
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alldodge

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Re: Anodes?

Stray currents have to have a source and a sink. Unless a boat also has a hard connection to shore ground through its own shore power, nothing is going to happen to it since everything is at the same potential.

+1, that's my understanding as well.
 

bruceb58

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Re: Anodes?

deleted

Was making things way too complicated.
 
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Chris1956

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Re: Anodes?

Bruce, Water is grounded (as it contacts the ground). Shore current is grounded where it enters the marina building, as every structure has a ground rod or other grounding device. In addition, the power companies use a "ground return", rather than using wires to carry current. The bottom line is that stray current in the water can travel thru your motor components causing corrosion. Anodes help prevent or slow that.
So your source is unknown. it could be the boat in the next slip. The sink is your motor gear case, transom clamp or outdrive in the water.
 

bruceb58

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Re: Anodes?

Current isn't magically going to flow through the motor unless your motor is connected to something to allow current to flow through it.

It has to have a condition like this one:
2.gif


Get rid of that green ground wire on that boat on the left and there will be no problem for that boat caused by the other boat.

This is why many people don't leave their boat plugged in 24/7 to shore power. It also means you have to actually pull the plug and not just switch off the breaker since the ground wire would still be connected. Also why isolation transformers don't prevent everything either.
 
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Chris1956

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Re: Anodes?

Bruce, That statement is too simplistic. Boats are grounded unless they are all fiberglass and all metal is out of the water. Even a brass bilge plug, and some bilge water can ground them. Not many are not grounded when tied to the dock.

A battery can consist of two different metals immersed in a salt. So your boat has a SS propshaft and an aluminum outdrive, both of which are submerged in a salt. So your boat is already a weak battery, even in fresh water. Add salt water, and more stainless steel, brass or other items and the battery gets stronger. Add some stray current from a boat, or a power outlet on the dock or shore with some current leakage, and the battery gets stronger. Just because you do not see the current Path (circuit), does not mean it doesn't exist.
 

lg260ss

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Re: Anodes?

+1^^ Galvanic corrosion happens when a boat is plugged into shore power. Since you don't plug your boat in and leave it in the water, no protection is needed

I disagree, You are describing stray current corrosion not Galvanic corrosion.

Galvanic corrosion : Corrosion that occurs at the anode of a galvanic cell.

You may remember high school chemistry class where a battery was created by connecting two dissimilar metals with wire and immersing the whole contraption in water thereby activating magnetic fields and starting an electrochemical process causing current to flow.

On a boat with bronze, aluminum, galvanized and stainless steel that are connected with grounding wires and immersed in the lake...... you accomplish the same thing. The more noble metal is the "cathode", the less noble, the "anode". In this process the less noble metal gives up electrons to the more noble thus weakening the metal, otherwise known as "galvanic corrosion".

The "sacrificial" anodes on your shafts, trim tabs etc. are supposed to sacrifice themselves thereby protecting expensive metal parts. This is why it's important to keep your anodes or "zinc's" in good condition and never paint them.

A vessel suffering from galvanic corrosion is usually the source of it's own problem, although two vessel's linked by shore power grounds can create a galvanic cell between two very close boats.

2. Stray Current corrosion : Corrosion that results from an electrical source causing a metal in contact with an electrolyte (water) to become anodic with respect to some other metal in the same electrolyte.

In simple terms a wire touches something it shouldn't, like a faulty bilge pump float or degraded wiring lying in the bilge sending current into the water, causing one metal to give up electrons and corrode. Again any vessel suffering from this type of corrosion is likely the master of it's own disaster but the culprit could also be a neighboring vessel. This type of corrosion can can eat metals at an alarming rate. I know of one 42' motoryacht that lost both shafts, both rudders and both propellers in a space of less than two weeks.

Complicating this picture somewhat is the fact that DC can be super-imposed on your AC wiring through the common ground on board or the ground in the shore power pedestal we all share on the dock. As all vessels in the marina are connected through shorepower grounds there is potential for widespread damage. Aside from concerns of corrosion there is also potential for electrocution if shorepower cords are allowed to lie in the water let alone the fools that leave their shorepower cord plugged in at the dock while they go out for an afternoon cruise.

Recent tests have shown that AC current from shorepower in the water can also cause corrosion to underwater parts although at a slower rate than DC. This has been a long argued issue by people who know a lot more about this than me. Ground fault protection systems, galvanic isolators, isolation transformers and impressed current systems are some of the various methods attempting to combat corrosion.

Salt water is generally regarded as a more serious breeding ground for marine corrosion as the salt makes it more conductive however, polluted fresh water can be even more conductive with the right contaminants.
 

alldodge

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Re: Anodes?

Bruce, That statement is too simplistic. Boats are grounded unless they are all fiberglass and all metal is out of the water. Even a brass bilge plug, and some bilge water can ground them. Not many are not grounded when tied to the dock.

A battery can consist of two different metals immersed in a salt. So your boat has a SS propshaft and an aluminum outdrive, both of which are submerged in a salt. So your boat is already a weak battery, even in fresh water. Add salt water, and more stainless steel, brass or other items and the battery gets stronger. Add some stray current from a boat, or a power outlet on the dock or shore with some current leakage, and the battery gets stronger. Just because you do not see the current Path (circuit), does not mean it doesn't exist.

There is no actual connection to earth ground, and without a connection there is no current flow. No ground connection no current flow. Using the most simplistic of approaches current pass on the skin of a metallic surface via a strong enough magnetic field. This skin effect has no actual transfer of material so no effect on the metal
 

bruceb58

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Re: Anodes?

If you have a fiberglass boat sitting in the water, outdrive in the water, not connected to shore power, the only currents that are going to affect your boat are the currents it is creating within itself caused by the galvanic action. That is why you have anodes.

The boat that is sitting right next to you has absolutely ZERO affect on you given there is no connection between the 2 boats since current can not flow between the two. Same principal that a bird sitting on a high tension line doesn't get electrocuted.

I disagree, You are describing stray current corrosion not Galvanic corrosion.
That is correct. Galvanic corrosion is caused by two dissimilar metals in an electrolyte. No additional current is needed since it is generating its own.

I agree with everything you said.
 
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