Another Tilt/Trim leaking down slowly...

[dennyjd]

Few beers + lack of boat knowledge = tilt motor in pieces

After reading a bunch of threads on this great forum (and with some liquid encouragement) we tried to fix it. We started by taking out the two snap rings at the bottom, which is where I thought the seals were that we needed to replace. With those off, nothing still would budge. It got ugly after that. We pretty much took every piece of the tilt/trim motor apart. Springs were flying, ball bearings and gear pieces were falling out. We ended up dropping the boat and all the parts off at the local marine repair shop last night for help! I guess the questions are: What should we expect from the repair shop? Is this something that they should be able to put back together easily? Should we expect to be buying a new pump/motor? Could the problem be elsewhere? The boat is a 1988 Bayliner Bass Cat with almost no hours on it. It has been in dry storage for years and years, and is in pristine shape. The motor is a 1988 Force 125HP with a 1254X8C serial number. Also, all of the schematics I have seen of the tilt/trim on the Web show only one tilt cylinder. Ours has two, plus a larger diameter trim towards the bottom. Not sure what the difference is there? Thanks for the help in advance!

 

[RRitt]

Re: Another Tilt/Trim leaking down slowly...

yours is a chrysler/prestolite engineered system. it is the better of the two systems offering two stage operation with more precise control of trim and faster lifting of tilt. From 92' and on the same hydraulics were used but a mercury/eaton pump was used more commonly than prestolite. The eaton pump is arguably a better pump design but mercury went cheap on some critical seals and fluid type. They saved 0.50 in the factory but cut the lifespan from 20 years down to 15 and increased the cost of repairs by twofold. Hey, what can you say? That's just the way mercury treated force engines. In 1995 they went to the single ram system that you are probably looking at. I think they also made some changes to stern brackets at that time and I doubt that systems from one style will fit the other without modifications to mounting and oil tubing. In late 90's mercury sold an oildyne replacement kit that was used to replace the entire prestolite pump. The good news on oildyne is that it still has 5-10 years left. The bad news is that they cost more to fix than throw away.

regarding what you can expect from local marine repair shop. you can expect them to replace it with a new and very expensive part. getting into the guts of those things is probably over their head. As long as all the parts are there it can be fixed. That isn't the issue. The issue is that the parts aren't listed for sale in any of their catalogs. They come through industrial and hydraulic supply houses rather than normal marina channels. They just aren't parts that you can look up in a catalog. You have to whip out the micrometer and order them based on dimensions. (you shoulda just mailed me the bag of parts).

 

[dennyjd]

Re: Another Tilt/Trim leaking down slowly...

Wow! Thanks for the great info and quick reply. I will let you know what the shop says, probably next week some time. If they end up baffled and/or try to get an arm and half a leg from me on parts, we will have to talk! Do you think rebuilding it and changing the seals would take care of my problem? Thanks again.

 

[RRitt]

Re: Another Tilt/Trim leaking down slowly...

rebuilding the valve body will fix bleed down more than 80% of the time. As a rule of thumb I always recc. having pump and motor serviced as one. The same thing that causes bleed down also lets water into the motor and vice-versa. When one goes out the other usually isn't too far behind.

It is relatively cheap to install new seals into a motor without rebuilding it. Putting new seals onto a good motor is a cheap way to insure against future breakage. The trim motor will last for 100 years or until water gets into it - whichever comes first. You should be able to order new gaskets from mercury for about $3 (or evinrude - they used same pump from 1970-1984. only difference is that OMC charges significantly more for same part). Add some stainless bolts and bonded sealing washers and your motor is good to go for another 10 years.

 

[Scaaty]

Re: Another Tilt/Trim leaking down slowly...

One convulted pump. Look at these pix. Your mechanic might need them, but he will sell (if he can find one) a new (expensive) pump. Would you have pulled it apart knowing this was whats inside?

 

[dennyjd]

Re: Another Tilt/Trim leaking down slowly...

Ahhhhhhhh!!! That looks familiar!! Not so scary when you have nice diagrams like this!!!! I want to get it back from the shop NOW and put it all back together!

Where are the seals that can be replaced? I don?t remember seeing any of those? Are they behind the snap rings that I took out on the bottom of the pump? I couldn?t get anything to budge behind there after took those out.

And, to answer your question, HECK NO!


Thanks!

 

[Kajun37]

Re: Another Tilt/Trim leaking down slowly...

you can expect to get ranked over the coals on parts and labor..thats what.....i'd go down there and see if they started on it or not... then ask them for an estimate on parts and labor..if its over $400...tell them your gonna try to do it yourself first...then come back here or send it out to rritt.

 

[RRitt]

Re: Another Tilt/Trim leaking down slowly...

denny -

the lower seals aren't shown in pictures. the upper seals are the ball bearings "A" and "D". on some models there are more balls and springs than shown. On other models there are only four bolts instead of five. pressure is adjusted with shims "c" on older models and with an adjusting screw on later ones. the seven lower seals are on shuttle valve and manual release valves.

 

[Scaaty]

Re: Another Tilt/Trim leaking down slowly...

I want to add that I got those pix off this site a few years back, and saved them. I don't remember who posted them.
I have a 88 125, its a 4 screw I think, and a Seloc manual with more digrams if ya need more. Still, one scary pump, but one that works fine when its works!

 

[anelson1995]

Re: Another Tilt/Trim leaking down slowly...

For some reason the pics aren't displaying on my screen and I could really use them right about now. Can somebody email them to me? anelson1995@comcast.net

 

[agropic]

Re: Another Tilt/Trim leaking down slowly...

Hey Scaaty...can you send me the pics of the pump...same situation here..

agropic@hotmail.com

Thanks..

 

[idunno]

Re: Another Tilt/Trim leaking down slowly...

Hi Scatty,
Am having the same problem pictures wont display on my screen
could you send directly to .ajcd1@bigpond.com

 

[Scaaty]

Re: Another Tilt/Trim leaking down slowly...

Jeezzz...old post back again...!
I took them off photobucket....I'll go post them again in a bit...

 

[Scaaty]

Re: Another Tilt/Trim leaking down slowly...

OK, they are back up...in the original post (#5)
I have no other info or who posted those a long time ago (so I do not know who to give the credit too)
Theres more info in the manual though..hope this helps!

 

[woodduck2]

Re: Another Tilt/Trim leaking down slowly...

hi scatty! I do have the four bolt two large springs one small three bearings and some shims, could you possibly send diagram for that type to mack4bruce@yahoo.com thank you very much